HYDROGEN preorders...

[dillont]

Interesting. It's a matter of POV ... literally.

Depends on what you've been exposed to. I was personally blown away by it, because I haven't seen anything better (the google crude lightfield demo). I've shown it to several artists, and each of them were also blown away, and can't wait to show other artists.

I suspect H4V to be far superior.

So ... yeh...

I don't miss the point of H4V or indeed some other light field technologies, but Google is showing off a (crude) capture system you then need a VR headset to view the output from and I don't see much of that catching on. Elements of it maybe, but not that particular execution.

 

[John Chambers]

Interesting. It's a matter of POV ... literally.

Depends on what you've been exposed to.

Yes, I do see that and maybe I'm being a little insensitive to your POV!

I've mentioned this before on one of the H1 threads here, but a long time ago I was involved in holography (the proper laser-generated kind) and around that time, myself and several pioneers in the field were inspired by an exhibition in London called "Light Fantastic", where we saw some of the largest and best holograms on display anywhere in the world up to that point. It was a revelation.

That experience is what I've always compared any new 3D technology to ever since and none have come anywhere close so far. So I do understand if others don't have that sort of reference point and are being blown away by 'simulated' 3D and clever use of parallax and perspective in a 2D environment, but for me I will never be satisfied until I experience a display which makes me question whether I am looking at a real object or a captured image of one.

 

[Prabesh Aryal]

It would be great (in the not too distant future) for someone to come up to me with their iPhone and go "hey, look at this amazing 3D comic I've got!" so I can pull out my H1 and go "Oh, yeah, that's pretty neat, but have you seen this?" :emote_22_yikes:

LOL!! YUP and + RH1 will have the "Hologram" effect that will make it pop out of the screen... so yeah going to be super cool

Interesting. It's a matter of POV ... literally.

Depends on what you've been exposed to. I was personally blown away by it, because I haven't seen anything better (the google crude lightfield demo). I've shown it to several artists, and each of them were also blown away, and can't wait to show other artists.

I suspect H4V to be far superior.

So ... yeh...

yeah I am with you google light field demo might be little crude for most thing but man it is amazing for VFX guys.... like you get the set design of the place with so little effort crazy!!! and sure it will need some work to get it ready for your production pipeline but still super fast and easy.... like you do a location scout in google earth now days but soon you might be able to do that in 3d space.... that is AWESOME!!! I cant wait to see where that stuff goes...

 

[Phil Holland]

Seems we are in a linear world after all. And it seems there are biases so ingrained against Cryptos that our spitballing has been dismissed out of hand with no reason given against other than personal opinion.

In the eyes of some we are way ahead of our time. In the eyes of others I'm sure they think we are way behind the times.

Heh. I'm not against crypto at all btw. I'm invested and have been for a long while, mostly to experiment. I'm mostly calling out the Kodak effort as it is/was also a rather a clear branding and cash grab, not to mention, not the smartest way to deploy mining machines.

 

[H Dewey]

Heh. I'm not against crypto at all btw. I'm invested and have been for a long while, mostly to experiment. I'm mostly calling out the Kodak effort as it is/was also a rather a clear branding and cash grab, not to mention, not the smartest way to deploy mining machines.

Oh, I get that then. I'll admit I was momentarily impressed to read that Kodak was trying to re-invent themselves, but then couldn't see it other than just another Crypto currency among the thousands.

But that's where mine and Eric's thoughts differed from just another Crypto. We agreed there would be no mining of RED Tokens. Just a way of rewarding anyone posting 4V content, leading to Social Media being inundated with 4V video, leading to more H-1 owners who want to see the videos in 4V.

The tie-in with Crypto currency was just a way for someone amassing large volumes of RED Tokens to exchange them for something of a monetary value. If RED allowed the tokens to be redeemed for RED gear/services (RED Channel for instance) AND would allow a discounted exchange for cash, then there would not need to be any tie-in with Crypto currencies (although some form of keeping track of RED Tokens using Blockchain would be really forward looking.)

But I do think the tie in with Crypto currencies could give RED a Hydrogen boost that would/could give them a leg up on every other phone maker. RED would make a commission on Token for Crypto exchange and the opposite direction as well. RED would set the price in dollar denominated value for Tokens. However, an owner of Tokens could offer them at a sell/buy price if Tokens were scarce and if Crypto owners were desparate to find a safe haven during a crisis.

I get it that you are concerned more with 8k acquisition and distribution and that you are perhaps worried that a RED Token program could divert RED from becoming a mature company like SONY or ARRI.

But I'm thinking the RED Token division would be separate from the RED you've come to know and love. Hydrogen is a new way of doing things. RED Token would also be disruptive.

OBTW, I don't own any Crypto currency and probably never will. OTOH, I would love me some RED Tokens.

 

[Eric Lange]

Heh. I'm not against crypto at all btw. I'm invested and have been for a long while, mostly to experiment. I'm mostly calling out the Kodak effort as it is/was also a rather a clear branding and cash grab, not to mention, not the smartest way to deploy mining machines.

I think I originally said something like "Kodak doing this block chain device is like your grandpa selling his war medals to buy crack"...

When the topic of crypto currency was brought up by (Prabesh A (possibly)??? (apologies if that's wrong)... regarding a distributed computation model / rendering idea ... (but was in the context of how long it takes to compute "other" types of "light field" data sets from elaborate light field cameras. ).

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm totally on board with the idea of a RED-TOKEN ... System for RED-Ecosystem 100%.

That would not be a desperate move... (Originally I though Meh... "Red is not that desperate" ...) but having thrashed things out with H Dewey (these are all his ideas) I'm on board!


I think for RED network as a system of exchange it would be an excellent idea.

@H Dewey :thumbup1:

_______________________________________________

WOW someone on the internet managed to change the mind of someone else... (That never happens ;-) ).

 

[Eric Lange]

@ Eric

Seems we are in a linear world after all. And it seems there are biases so ingrained against Cryptos that our spitballing has been dismissed out of hand with no reason given against other than personal opinion.

In the eyes of some we are way ahead of our time. In the eyes of others I'm sure they think we are way behind the times.

Anyway, we got it out there.

Cheers

I don't feel dismissed or dissed in the slightest...

Sometimes for "Mythbusting" you need something to push against!

@ H Dewey you really changed my mind about a RED TOKEN system... Totally digging it 100%

Loving the RED TOKEN idea especially related to HYDROGEN NETWORK...

I'll get coffee and read what you have been writing...


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I haven't met Jarred Land personally but seems like he has a really good sense of humor...


So "Token gift" (hidden in plane sight is a gift of Tokens that can be applied to future Hydrogen modules or something on Hydrogen Network... )


Very clever and very funny...



I think I argued that "Token " gift would be hardware... But I think the most recent Jim statements put that one to bed...

TOKEN GIFT | TFIG NEKOT

TOKEN GIFT | GIFT TOKEN (lol) so good

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm the one to blame for de-railing that potential discussion last time... My bad. [If Larry Fink / Black Rock things that Crypto currencies when implemented the right way are potentially a good way to go for (non-speculative reasons) then I'm IN! Seriously)... Not for speculation but to help a HYDROGEN based "Economy" Hell yeh!


Sorry Larry Fink trumps Phill Holland (don't get grumpy ;-) (but Phil is awesome!) ). (Until proven other wise ).

 

[dillont]

A first step into a brand new medium.

I'm incredibly excited about what's about to happen. :emote_22_yikes:

LOL!! YUP and + RH1 will have the "Hologram" effect that will make it pop out of the screen... so yeah going to be super cool



yeah I am with you google light field demo might be little crude for most thing but man it is amazing for VFX guys.... like you get the set design of the place with so little effort crazy!!! and sure it will need some work to get it ready for your production pipeline but still super fast and easy.... like you do a location scout in google earth now days but soon you might be able to do that in 3d space.... that is AWESOME!!! I cant wait to see where that stuff goes...

 

[Eric Lange]

Yes, I do see that and maybe I'm being a little insensitive to your POV!

I've mentioned this before on one of the H1 threads here, but a long time ago I was involved in holography (the proper laser-generated kind) and around that time, myself and several pioneers in the field were inspired by an exhibition in London called "Light Fantastic", where we saw some of the largest and best holograms on display anywhere in the world up to that point. It was a revelation.

That experience is what I've always compared any new 3D technology to ever since and none have come anywhere close so far. So I do understand if others don't have that sort of reference point and are being blown away by 'simulated' 3D and clever use of parallax and perspective in a 2D environment, but for me I will never be satisfied until I experience a display which makes me question whether I am looking at a real object or a captured image of one.

With our tech / CSTMs that's exactly the effect that is achieved... (but I have only done that with glasses based display systems)... Basically re-presents to your eyes and brain what you would naturally see.

So from my perspective CSTMs + HYDROGEN (glasses free display) should = pure awesomeness. Can't wait.

I'm pretty sure RED have some amazing stuff to show. Especially for streamed content.

____________________________________________________________________________________

HYDROGEN is immersive and full color and high resolution.

Regular Holograms as awesome as they are , are not so great for color accuracy, and holographic real time presentation out of a screen is not super practical in respect of an entertainment experience... Think 3d chess set on Millennium Falcon.*.. Holographic 3d characters in miniature VS an total environment you can be immersed in glasses free... (no laser speckles or weird chromatic artifacts)... With H4V type immersive experience objects and scenes scale more naturally in a complete way and complex 3d textures through out the scene are perceivable.

Overall H4V and HYDROGEN / LEIA tech seem to have the two killer combinations of being very practical and also very high quality (yet affordable).

Most critically laser holographic capture is not known for capturing human subjects that are live... @John Chambers maybe you can explain better than I can why that is so?

___________________________________________________________________________________

* Yes I know the 3d chess set from STAR WARS is not really holographic but needed a well known visual reference to explain miniaturized characters on a mini stage (Not what happens with HYDROGEN).

 

[Eric Lange]

Oh, I get that then. I'll admit I was momentarily impressed to read that Kodak was trying to re-invent themselves, but then couldn't see it other than just another Crypto currency among the thousands.

But that's where mine and Eric's thoughts differed from just another Crypto. We agreed there would be no mining of RED Tokens. Just a way of rewarding anyone posting 4V content, leading to Social Media being inundated with 4V video, leading to more H-1 owners who want to see the videos in 4V.

The tie-in with Crypto currency was just a way for someone amassing large volumes of RED Tokens to exchange them for something of a monetary value. If RED allowed the tokens to be redeemed for RED gear/services (RED Channel for instance) AND would allow a discounted exchange for cash, then there would not need to be any tie-in with Crypto currencies (although some form of keeping track of RED Tokens using Blockchain would be really forward looking.)

But I do think the tie in with Crypto currencies could give RED a Hydrogen boost that would/could give them a leg up on every other phone maker. RED would make a commission on Token for Crypto exchange and the opposite direction as well. RED would set the price in dollar denominated value for Tokens. However, an owner of Tokens could offer them at a sell/buy price if Tokens were scarce and if Crypto owners were desparate to find a safe haven during a crisis.

I get it that you are concerned more with 8k acquisition and distribution and that you are perhaps worried that a RED Token program could divert RED from becoming a mature company like SONY or ARRI.

But I'm thinking the RED Token division would be separate from the RED you've come to know and love. Hydrogen is a new way of doing things. RED Token would also be disruptive.

OBTW, I don't own any Crypto currency and probably never will. OTOH, I would love me some RED Tokens.

THIS ^^^ What he said! Totally on board with that outline.


Perfect synopsis...

I approve this message lol ;-).

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Excellent differentiation through the concepts of

1. "RED Token division would be separate from the RED you've come to know and love"

2. "Hydrogen is a new way of doing things".

3. " RED Token would also be disruptive"

_______________________________________________________


Totally of the same experience and mindset of "I don't own any Crypto currency and probably never will. OTOH, I would love me some RED Tokens. " ... "Ditto" :thumbup1: :coolgleamA:

______________________________________________________

Boil that down you get a NEW, DISRUPTIVE, HYDROGEN DIVISION. (Sounds just like what the doctor ordered).

 

[John Chambers]

Most critically laser holographic capture is not known for capturing human subjects that are live... @John Chambers maybe you can explain better than I can why that is so?

Not sure what you mean by that Eric, unless you haven't seen any of the pulsed laser holograms of live subjects?

Here's Dennis Gabor (the inventor of holography) with the (famous) hologram of himself.

Agree with you that holography hasn't completely overcome the colour issues on the whole, but there are some spectacularly good full colour examples around, particularly in Russia.

 

[Eric Lange]

Not sure what you mean by that Eric, unless you haven't seen any of the pulsed laser holograms of live subjects?

Here's Dennis Gabor (the inventor of holography) with the (famous) hologram of himself.

Agree with you that holography hasn't completely overcome the colour issues on the whole, but there are some spectacularly good full colour examples around, particularly in Russia.

That's cool as hell...

I did read a book by Dennis Gabor (unfortunately left it in a dentist's office ten years ago) but they were mainly discussing how to image wavefronts and shapes of sound waves. Main application.

At the Light Fantastic exhibition (at the science museum in London (a few decades ago) ) [Where your exhibit was @ John C]. They had a lot of pretty good and large plate Russian full color-ish holograms using mercury vapor lamps. Very interesting to see, I was like ten years old at the time and still vividly remember those.


________________________________________________________________________________________


Dumb question : With Pulsed laser holography of live subjects is the amount of laser light you have to throw at your subjects in a "Flash" pretty intense and a little dangerous to your eyes? Would that also not trash RED cameras and Cmos sensors in the environment (just wondering?).

I love holograms too (especially actively driven laser holograms).


@John Chambers what in your opinion would be the limitations of holography for capturing dynamic sequences of live subjects?

Also have you seen any or many synthetically computed holograms? (to create naturalistic looking subjects?) ?

Cheers,

Eric

 

[John Chambers]

At the Light Fantastic exhibition (at the science museum in London (a few decades ago) ) [Where your exhibit was @ John C]. They had a lot of pretty good and large plate Russian full color-ish holograms using mercury vapor lamps. Very interesting to see, I was like ten years old at the time and still vividly remember those.

The Light Fantastic Exhibition I'm referring to was at the Royal Academy in 1977, before the Science Museum one you've been referring to previously.

Short news item from the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQMyR8paYQ

Dumb question : With Pulsed laser holography of live subjects is the amount of laser light you have to throw at your subjects in a "Flash" pretty intense and a little dangerous to your eyes? Would that also not trash RED cameras and Cmos sensors in the environment (just wondering?).

There's no such thing as a dumb question... Yes, the flash will be intense but as long as the holographic film or plate is sensitive enough it's no worse for an eye or a camera than a photographic strobe light. Most pulsed lasers used for holography are also likely to be operating the red portion of the spectrum, so the energy level is lower.

@John Chambers what in your opinion would be the limitations of holography for capturing dynamic sequences of live subjects?

The biggest limitation to get beyond the 'still lives' holograms usually seem to be is that the lighting source has to be coherent to make a true hologram and that is a very limiting factor! That and you still have to use a sensitive emulsion to capture the interference pattern rather than an electronic sensor. I can't see that changing for a long time.

Also have you seen any or many synthetically computed holograms? (to create naturalistic looking subjects?) ?

There are many computer-generated holographic images around, but they're usually geometric shapes or block graphics because the computing power needed to generate the pattern for a photo-realistic model would be immense! It's an interesting question though so I might do a bit of searching to look for some complex CG holograms.

 

[dillont]

I'm honored to be in your guys' company.

 

[Elias Tejeda]

I wonder if Hydrogen will end up being at NAB

 

[Kevin T]

with the specs released about Gemini today did they have to do that as soon the announcement about the hydrogen One having the same sensor ??
sorry I am really hungry for some camera specs

 

[Elias Tejeda]

All the new sensors are pretty clean, any of them would be good options


Its interesting to note that the comparisons in the video are based on dragon and not either of the two newer sensors

 

[William Mauritzen]

Latest?

Latest?

Do we have any news on ship date for preorders?

 

[Elias Tejeda]

not anything concrete

 

[Wayne Morellini]

We had more firm ship dates on the scarlet fix at this stage