HYDROGEN preorders...

[Wayne Morellini]

I want one too. But why not run both at the same time to do HDR. You could aldo do it so if the low light pickup saturates the bright pickup turns on. So, pixel by pixel it will automatically decide which mode to use and produce HDR. Theautobright camera technology, which I think you guys might have hold of, used auto gain, from memory, to this effect (but their hdr pictures could look weird, but I got reasonable results from it).

From a Gemini thread.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

All the new sensors are pretty clean, any of them would be good options

Its interesting to note that the comparisons in the video are based on dragon and not either of the two newer sensors

If you shrink the pixels to fit in a phone, the native range and lowlight will be reduced, so using the best tech gives you closer toal 16.5 stops and better low light.


But is this the same sort of tech that onsemi and Sony uses? In ways Gemini is better to use, but I want better lattitude, because I know low light is going be ok anyway compared to other phones. If they could hit 16.5 in phone, that would stand out against many phones (including those coming soon).

 

[William Mauritzen]

There are two things i’ve Been waiting on for what feels like forever...my glowforge w/airfilter...and this.

 

[Jayanth Devasundaram]

Hi, Finally, I am able to post to the RED Hydrogen thread; I pre-ordered it sight unseen last year and am awaiting the package! In the other thread, “Updates” one of you posted re: using 3D for medical records; can this person please contact me sonce one of the main reasons I jumped ship from Apple to the RED technology is because I’m interested in 3 D medical records as the way of the future. Ive given this considerable thought and some action using the Visible Human cross sctional images since 2004. I have a background in medicine, public health and a three year stint in a GIS software company in Southern California.

Regards, Jayanth D (Jay D)

 

[Wayne Morellini]

There are two things i’ve Been waiting on for what feels like forever...my glowforge w/airfilter...and this.

Nice. I'm wanting to get a high precision multimaterial hot head printer that is able to output metal/allow particle solutions for killing. Some massively nice prototyping refinements with that. With enough heads it's possible to do circuite boards and circuits (now there is a business). If you had enough heads, matrix and feeders, you could do amazing things.
.I'm also interested in that laser projectie based acrylic system. Somebody had done a sub $100 Kickstarter one that weren't belly up. But definitely good for rapidly spiting out stuff to hold.

 

[Barry L Hogue]

Very excited for the Launch, I placed an order on July 6th, 2017 and can't wait to get my hands on one!

 

[Eric Lange]

Hi, Finally, I am able to post to the RED Hydrogen thread; I pre-ordered it sight unseen last year and am awaiting the package! In the other thread, “Updates” one of you posted re: using 3D for medical records; can this person please contact me sonce one of the main reasons I jumped ship from Apple to the RED technology is because I’m interested in 3 D medical records as the way of the future. Ive given this considerable thought and some action using the Visible Human cross sctional images since 2004. I have a background in medicine, public health and a three year stint in a GIS software company in Southern California.

Regards, Jayanth D (Jay D)

Jay D...

Yup

The medical applications are manifest, especially for 3d medical records... For so many applications.

Not sure if it was me that caught your eye in terms of "medical records" but that's an application area I'm very interested in and have relevant tech for but there may be many other ways to skin these types of cats especially with H4V and Hydrogen and LEIA tech.

Some discussions about veterinary applications, dental applications, plastic surgery / facial reconstruction and manufacture of different types of prosthetics... Different approaches to CT type data and multispectral imaging including advanced versions of stereo X-radiographs (either for developing countries or for security and veterinary applications).

Re-rendering of volumetric type data sets...

That kind of thing ?

Jog any neurons there ?

I'm not the only one going on about serious medical applications (perhaps)?

(However I am very interested in high end VR style / H4V / CSTM (maybe)... GIS/better than google Earth + massive massive massive data sets/ data centres.. ) Like medical records or habitat recording or Urban planning, preservation and conservation/ World Heritage/Archeological/Cultural applications, or species recording to critical archives etc etc. From Medical to mapping the Moon). GPS to GIS to navigation applications... Self driving cars to semi autonomous vehicles regardless of where they might be... (including Mars ;-) ). BUT maybe not all at once ;-)... ).

Cheers,

Eric

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Given your several; "Wheelhouses" are

Ive given this considerable thought and some action using the Visible Human cross sctional images since 2004. I have a background in medicine, public health and a three year stint in a GIS software company in Southern California.

So I /we would be very interested in reaching out to you... (and your projects/research)...

@ Jay D Are you wanting to be present or going to HYDROGEN DAY at RED Studios... (still don't know what the policy is on invites etc.)...

Very cool you did the Pre-order thing!

A good "Club" to be in right now IMO.


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Not sure how the NAB "Thing" is going to shake out but your post Jay D really illustrates that LEIA and HYDROGEN are here to stay regardless of what the entertainment / broadcast community initially make of it.

Just a much much wider application base than the "business"... But once it catches fire in the spheres of new entertainment and visual communication media it could be pretty substantial freight train.

(I'm pretty sure Jarred L and Jim J if they are a NAB are going to have very little chance for putting serial number 0000000000001 and 0000000000002* back in their pockets... lol. They will be totally mauled).

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* Should endeavor to learn the proper serial numbers for the sake of "historic" correctness.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

What, no luna map Eric?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

You know, after all the stalling, and all the showing off the thing, it's getting kinda of boring?

People talk about Gemini too, but there is a phone coming out with over 50k or 100k iso too. People rave, but the dual pickup pixel thing is not new, and Sony Starvis has been allowing drone night flying for years.

Even Eric has run out of much to say.

 

[Eric Lange]

What, no luna map Eric?

A lot of folks don't know that the Apollo service module/command module carried out a lot of stereographic aerial surveys of the Moon (from lunar orbit). I Believe Intergraph was the company created to do the photogrammetry / cartography on that.

So YOU COULD if you source the NASA/ Intergraph data look at the moons surface in 3D (looking downward) using HYDROGEN.

Also there were stereograms that were taken on the moon too (by the Astronauts) . (Cough cough).

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There is some kind of variant of the X prize that folks are working on to put mini remote controlled vehicles on the lunar surface. So h4v and stereo streamed 4-view or multi-view content could be very good for that.

Also I think fairly recently the Chinese put a very substantial vehicle on the Moon also... If I was a betting man I would probably bet on the Chinese mining Helium 3 on the Moon before anyone else. [I think they are pretty "down" for that.].

Also as you say Wayne a bit of Lunar archaeology if stumble across some of the old Apollo landing sites... And other Probes that hard or soft-landed.

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The whole Gemini camera thing... Hard not to think of the Gemini/"Twins" / duality being separated , and one of those twins becoming the basis for HYDROGEN Module... 5K x 3K ?

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A bank of 4 RED Geminis on the ISS (International Space Station) could be pretty damn sweet for day time and night time holo imaging...

To Phil Hollands credit he always stresses how little the RED "Brains" weigh... In terms of actual payload to space that is really really critical / really expensive per pound (still) so HYDROGEN on the ISS or Space X ventures would be very experiential and payload efficient.

Not everybody can hitch a ride into space but being able to bring "Space" to people really creates that "STAR TREK" "First Contact Moment" When Cochran 's character (played by Cromwell) views the Earth from space for the first time a truly perspective altering experience.

 

[John Doyle]

3D formats?

3D formats?

Stupid question time.

Will the phone be able to render any existing 3D formats/markups such as X3D or WebGL? If not, do we know if any conversion tools are on the roadmap?

Also, is some kind of development platform planned for creating 3D games for the HYDROGEN Network? I'm not expecting any miracles, but given the demand for mobile gaming
this feature would be hugely huge.

Apologies if these questions have already been asked, but they recently occurred to me and I can't find any info on them and now they are burning a hole in my brain.

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[Jayanth Devasundaram]

Medical records

Medical records

Hi Eric,
I have worked with the Visible Human anatomical images to create vector layers with data and information, that could well serve as a unique inter-opearability solution to the myriads of EHR systems out there.
I would love to get in touch with you regardng this. As for the pre-order thing, I now largely live in India, but am hoping to be in the US for the release, though, you can understand that without a specific date, the logistics of booking and travelling for this event is dicey!

Jay

 

[Eric Lange]

3D formats and rendering schemes II

3D formats and rendering schemes II

Stupid question time.

Will the phone be able to render any existing 3D formats/markups such as X3D or WebGL? If not, do we know if any conversion tools are on the roadmap?

Also, is some kind of development platform planned for creating 3D games for the HYDROGEN Network? I'm not expecting any miracles, but given the demand for mobile gaming
this feature would be hugely huge.

Apologies if these questions have already been asked, but they recently occurred to me and I can't find any info on them and now they are burning a hole in my brain.

Thanks,
Johnny

I know what you mean but shouldn't be too challenging to implement (as the core paradigm is fairly universal, there may be some gotchas). + Future versions of HYDROGEN.

We try to go for a very modular internal architecture with our code (as much as possible) so we can migrate more easily rather than tearing everything down and start from scratch.

Being VR based and deeply stereo based I'm a fan of OpenGl... And various flavors thereof. (For quad buffering it's nice) Also all our SW is architected to be Stereo/ s-3d / 3d immersive through out from the ground up rather than having to implement s-3d or 4v or holo as an after thought like a lot of very large graphics applications with a long history.

Also the basic "compute" architecture on the H1 is going to be really important too. Still thinking 835x with the stress on the X thing. Like a broken record I keep saying the 835 (plain vanilla) has higher bandwidth (to memory) and renders various OpenGl bench marks faster than the 845...

Things may have moved on with what's under the hood and maybe leap frog to a 8XXx. (Or similar in idea) or something pretty special with the "Chip set"... Something that has been a "Push-pull" set of arguments and speculations on various HYDROGEN threads here on RedUSER.

I'm interested in "Bandwidth" for essentially texture/ texture mapping and stereo texturing and implications thereof.

Given the purpose of HYDROGEN I am hoping that there is substantial bandwidth for texture mapping type operations in one way or another... For our applications the number of polygons we need to "Chuck" around are lower and yet achieve superb visual fidelity.

Gaming is super important on this platform.

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Question IS, will HYDROGEN one day get to 20 million users?

So I'm imagining a scenario where $ is pumped in by various means to create the first raft of "Killer Apps" i.e. folks buy H1 just to run or play a particular application/App/Game/ extension of the H1's core capability/capabilities (plural).

 

[Eric Lange]

Medical records and beyond II

Medical records and beyond II

Hi Eric,
I have worked with the Visible Human anatomical images to create vector layers with data and information, that could well serve as a unique inter-opearability solution to the myriads of EHR systems out there.
I would love to get in touch with you regardng this. As for the pre-order thing, I now largely live in India, but am hoping to be in the US for the release, though, you can understand that without a specific date, the logistics of booking and travelling for this event is dicey!

Jay

The Visible Human is amazing! Kinda weird too. I'm a huge fan of history of medicine in general (just fascinating to me). Cool or interesting about your vectorial overlays. The software we built does S-3d and VR 3d annotation diagrammatic overlays + labels etc and can if need be interfaced to most standard data bases.

That would be an excellent fit for HYDOGEN and future LEIA displays but also to record and annotate in 3d easily surgical procedures that are individual to the patient. Or record external morphological differences over time. There's a LONG history of photogrammetry and stereo-photogrammetry being used in medicine. So at least our core capability + SW + Hydrogen + LEIA + Medical databases Would be "killer" no pun intended. Hydrogen platform + the right flavors of SW could provide a very cost effective and practical solution, much more so than for example laser scanning techniques. For teaching hospitals very excellent possibility of telepresence with consulting and also of course with the eventual happening of 5G... A lot of Virtual long distance applications for VR have been touted.

Personally a separate holo display like LEIA will be far superior to head mounted VR displays (less disorienting)... If you are performing remote robotic surgery you don't want to feel dis-oriented and off balance as your surgical skills will be diminished with a HMD versus a separate holo or LEIA screen. Bigger screens in the future... Also there are other methods of 3d presentation where HYDROGEN can still be the front end/capture device.

 

[John Doyle]

Thanks for the reply Eric,

One of the things that intrigued me about the phone was the suggestion that it will be the new and improved way to experience VR, AR and MR, and I think that might have planted some unrealistic expectations for me given the fact that RED is in the business of pixels, not polygons.

Gaming is super important on this platform.

As an android device, it's probably safe to assume that it will run all the latest games available on Google Play, yes? I don't care about it so much for myself, but it will obviously be necessary for consumer adoption. For me, the 3D video viewing and creation capability will be everything. If it performs as we all hope, then that will be the killer app that will skyrocket adoption. Anything beyond that will be stratospheric! Either way, we better all buckle up!

 

[Eric Lange]

Thanks for the reply Eric,

One of the things that intrigued me about the phone was the suggestion that it will be the new and improved way to experience VR, AR and MR, and I think that might have planted some unrealistic expectations for me given the fact that RED is in the business of pixels, not polygons.



As an android device, it's probably safe to assume that it will run all the latest games available on Google Play, yes? I don't care about it so much for myself, but it will obviously be necessary for consumer adoption. For me, the 3D video viewing and creation capability will be everything. If it performs as we all hope, then that will be the killer app that will skyrocket adoption. Anything beyond that will be stratospheric! Either way, we better all buckle up!

Well a few things...

1. RED are building / working on new professional level h4v and 3d acquisition cameras as well as pro-sumer level devices + Hydrogen modules.

2. Reality capture IS a big deal and so are hybrid data sets that are both image based and polygonal. (without spamming; our tech is useful here).

3. Jim Jannard usually means what he says and is completely on point all be it veiled and mysterious (initially before launch) but everything he says does indeed dove tail perfectly to final reveal without conflict. Obviously if one mentions AR/VR and MR then some capability to push polygons around are required.

4. Pretty sure new divisions and capabilities with new people and partnerships will be set up to "Make it so". Polymaths that are good at "Poly" math.

5. Future of video games are also part of this.

6. There will I'm pretty sure be ways to pull data off HYDROGEN and further run and adapt capture capability on a regular PC that either has a larger LEIA displays or runs conventional frame sequential stereo + LCD shutter glasses or dual projection systems large (retro reflective )screen (short term), using linear polarized glasses

7. I believe the Snapdragon 835 can and does push around polygonal data and running OpenGl 2.0 + or special flavors thereof. Have seen some bench mark youtube videos. So I don't think that whatever RED / Jim Jannard /Team HYDROGEN finally integrate with won't have less polygonal rendering capability but MORE ... And who knows what a 8XXx Will do with the full HYDROGEN "Chip set"... So I'm pretty excited short term and especially longer term. No matter what eventually the ability to push around large numbers of polygons will be required but our tech makes very lightweight rendering capability look better than some of the most powerful real time rendering engines out there... Depends what one is trying to achieve.


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*side note we have very efficient tech that allows completely real time VR data sets from reality capture that are completely life like but require very very few polygons to implement... (compared to conventional techniques that aim to represent the same level of spatial detail)... technique relies on a special form of texturing called stereo texturing + a technique (using what we call ) Coherently Stereo Textured Models (through the formation of what we call tri-homologous points) that also have the further accidental side product of being able to re-render data sets so they are very three dimensionally very vivid in fine 3d detail and yet very comfortable to view for extended periods of time. We have unique ways to control macro and micro parallax that also enable wider base separations for shooting stereo/reality capture for more vivid 3d detail without viewer discomfort for scene that has a large range of parallax/ large corresponding range of depth.

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Many roads to Rome but within one or two generations of HYDROGEN its gonna be all there So as you say John Doyle Either way,

we better all buckle up!

I don't feel I'm being naïve, and the time it takes to develop and migrate and implement always best to be one or two generations ahead... @John I'm sure you know that.

There's a very experiential element to all this and a clear future development path, there will be (I think) things that are of an unprecedented visual quality and experience come HYDROGEN DAY or soon after

 

[Jayanth Devasundaram]

And then there is haptic feedback to augment the 3D.....perhaps through the audio hardware
Jay

 

[dillont]

And then there is haptic feedback to augment the 3D.....

Jay

sound haptics, yo!

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Eric, multipoint on small luna covers sounds great. However, now I'm worried about people tramping over landing sites with these. We need immediate international archaeology agreements over luna archeological sites, and the US, needs to fence them off, otherwise they can be lost. This can be done remotely with payloads and robotics sent to.theoin. Even a test run of the luna 3D printed building technology.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Oh, lol! You are not trying that Eric. A cheap way to do high speed 3D indeed. That's probably related to one part of my texture technology, but I didn't consider using it that way like they used to decades ago. That's a useful work around in certain uses.

I mean, it is a really enjoyable simplified idea. Brings a smile.