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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx footage...

Peter Majtan said:
Forget 16-bit and/or EXR. Let's keep it RAW from start to finish - just like Aperture (Lightroom) does for RAW stills...

EPIC / RED ONE M-X / Scarlet + STORM + RED Rocket = my personal dream! The best part is that we already have the yellow part to an extent...

:devil: Peter
Click to expand...

I'm taking about mastering to 16-bit 4K files -obviously RAW until mastering / deliverables.
 
Wow! Well, I for one second the motion :-) that the smooth motion blur, or almost lack thereof, is a huge deal. the strobing and blurring that comes with 24fps motion is one of the most objectionable visual elements that come with such slow "cinematographic" rates, and this video seems pleasantly devoid of it. That is amazing. And if the effect can somehow be matched between cameras, it will be a huge deal for 3D as well!

...and BTW, the guy with the came looks a little like Offhollywood Mark, disguised in the crowd, but keeping an eye nonetheless :-)
 
Pierre T. said:
Before anything else : congrats, no other camera can do that!




Let me tell you what I see when looking at two subsequent frames during the fast pan. The light bulbs are like comets with the head in the direction of the pan, except that they move inverse, tail first. The tails may be as big as the gaps between the tails without the heads, but head and tail together are larger than the gap with respect to the next frame.

So what I conclude from what you wrote/write and what I see is this :


- Magic HDR starts by taking a short exposure for the highlights and read is followed by reset for a second exposure without any break, the longer exposure for the shadows. The break (line readout + reset) is short enough that the combined parts (the overlapping DR of the two exposures), combined as a weighted sum, shows no noticible gap in the motion blurr.
- for this to work, I suppose that the MX can reset lines independently of reading them out and can read a line while resetting another line so as to allow exposures shorter than 5ms (otherwise, HDR could not gain more than 2 stops).

Please don't just answer (as often to such posts) with "wrong ;-)", since now you show us something and everybody can see the specific artefacts of the mode. You can just improve our understanding.

As for the highlights, unavoidably they might saturate during the longer exposure, also on the parts that are not exposed by a highlight on the shorter exposure (moving highlights). As a result, the « comet tails » have no usable information with respect to the saturated color channels on either of the two exposures. This would be an unavoidable artefact (the one thing you might consider « unnatural » in your footage) of the fact that the two exposures do not take place at the same time. But there could be a clever ways of dealing with this artefact, since it is possible to identify these zones quite precicely : they are saturated in the longer exposure and too dark in the shorter exposure to justify that saturation.

Wiith respect to the highlights, they remind of first curtain flash exposure.

In the parts where the two exposures are combined, the exposure time seems to exceed 1/48s.


Suggestions (even though you might have thought about these already, but consider it feature request feedback) :

* you might include in your options the inversion of the exposure order (like "second curtain highlights") and that may look more natural. Most photographers prefer second curtain for flash with motion anyways.

* you might also propose to set the exposure time as a combined time and not just for the lower lights.

As to the Scarlet HDR question : are you talking S35 or 2/3"? For 2/3", I think that pricing is more important than HDR. As for S35, a feature set somewhere in between your current announcement and EPIC can of course be very interesting.
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There are problematic in your explanation which doesn't add up. Surely a longer exposure time in the shadows would show more blur than the highlights which is obviously not the case?

I can only conclude that the blur in the highlights is due to two scans for highlights, one after the other, and one for the mids and shadows. which shares one scan. In this case however, the highlights would be out of adjustment in the frame which is hard to determine in this shot.

I think the second scan is the highlight frame and the reason you are seeing it inverse is because the truck is moving faster than the pan.

However, still it begs the question why if the first scan is overexposed for the mids/shads why are the trails not overexposed?

I really can't work it out but it reeks of genius.
 
Jason Sinclair said:
There are problematic in your explanation which doesn't add up. Surely a longer exposure time in the shadows would show more blur than the highlights which is obviously not the case?
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But it is the case. Look at the sign that says "Binion's" during the whip pan.

As others have said, the same effect as second curtain flash in stills.

Not an objectionable artefact at all, and the results are certainly impressive. If it is distracting, I imagine that MNMB adds optical flow based motion blur to the highlights.
 
It's SICK !!!!!!!!

Incredible, and the texture is still beautifull :)

Bravo guys!!!!!!!

Antoine
 
Guys, can we please keep the hypothetical $1000 Scarlet upgrade discussion in the related thread (Scarlet forum). It just seems potentially confusing.
 
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Yes this artifact is present in many of high contrast/extreme luminance areas like the Binion's sign, Gold Nugget sign and the firetruck lights. It would appear to be a result of magic motion's effecting and not the HDRx. In motion playback its pretty much invisible.

What amazing stuff Gents.

I cant believe I can see inside the wheel-wells of the fire engine at the same time as you hold the headlights!

1000 bucks to have HDR in a Scarlett??? Who could say no? You would be foolish!
It would save you thousands/tens of thousands of dollars worth of lighting over its lifetime. Or if you are shooting documentary style, provide "lighting" where you could never put lights. That flexibility is irreplaceable.
 
??? @ Jeff



Jannard said:
I have to wonder if Scarlet owners would prefer HDR in their cameras if they had to pay extra for it. We could up the processing power by adding boards but that will cost money and I'm not sure if Scarlet buyers will go for it. Some feedback on this would be helpful on another thread in the Scarlet section of reduser. Given the change in development path, board costs, an additional ASIC and "stuff", we are probably looking at an additional $1000 more or less.

If we did this, Scarlet could have both EasyHDR™ at 30fps and HDRx™ to 60fps.

Just thinking out loud here...

Someone want to start a thread there? It should be good for a lively debate.

Jim
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Nick Shaw said:
But it is the case. Look at the sign that says "Binion's" during the whip pan.

As others have said, the same effect as second curtain flash in stills.

Not an objectionable artefact at all, and the results are certainly impressive. If it is distracting, I imagine that MNMB adds optical flow based motion blur to the highlights.
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Except the problem still remains as opposed to using a flash (which gives more light to an object) that what we are dealing with is less less light to an object (as the exposure for the highlights should be less) The trail in the sign is not inverse. Still does not make sense.
 
JD Holloway said:
In motion playback its pretty much invisible.
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Oh, I agree. Not like I'd refuse to use the HDR mode because of something the viewer would have to watch frame by frame & know what the heck they're looking for to see. I think this is just simply amazing & it's still in the beta phase.
 
I would love to see a Prores, or better yet R3D :)' version of this to see if some of the skin tones can be neutralized. As Jim said there are a lot of color temps going on there.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
funny thing is - there are even MORE features on EPIC that have not even been announced yet. Most powerful moving image camera system PERIOD. But like I said in another post - HDRx™™ is the single biggest achievement from RED since REDCODE.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Getting this camera into our hands will be their greatest achievement :D

I can't freaking wait!
 
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