Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx footage...

Questions I still have from the other thread, in case they were missed:

Two questions:

It would seem impossible to increase dynamic range without also increasing exposure assuming the regular image were properly exposed (nearly saturating the cells) since on the bottom end noise is restricting DR. Does this approach require increasing exposure either through longer shutter times, bigger apertures or less ND? Apologies if this was answered up thread. I didn't see it.

Second question. In theory, could this approach be extended to arbitrarily large amounts of dynamic range given sufficient exposure? Stacking, long used in astrophotography, can offer up huge amounts of dynamic range (I've seen over 30 stops) with sufficiently short sub exposures and a sufficiently large number of them, or by combining long and short exposures together in the stack. Could this approach be used to duplicate those results?
 
Yeah I can't wait to use this feature. I love the approach of leaving HDR for post: good to see that RED's RAW workflow philosophy is continuing in their product development.

At this point theses images might as well be magic. There are artifacts (unnoticeable in motion) and this is beta, but with the extreme resolution and DR I see a close approximation of how the human eye would perceive that scene, and that is revolutionary.
 
fALk Gärtner said:
Just trying to understand how it works thats all - still love how it looks don´t want to pick on it - I definitely understand what "beta" means have been officially betatesting software since 15 years, ten years for apple (osx itself) ;)
And you do see how things works best where they break.
Click to expand...

+1

There's never anything wrong with constructive criticism. And I'm sure the RED team is also picking apart the footage frame by frame, too.

And yes, I agree they have a little time machine. I won't repeat how I think they are doing this - it's the only idea of mine that hasn't been explicitly shot down yet.

As for the rear curtain, front curtain issue. The problem with the analogy is that there is no strobelight freezing motion here, as there is in the still photo origin of the terms. What I mean in calling it a rear(second) curtain "Effect" or "Look" is that the object clearly stands out against it's motion blur in a way that is pleasing to the eye. It may not even be natural, but it "looks" right in that the object or person is not hidden in a blur. This is the magic in magic mode, and it may be the best mode for dealing with motion of bright objects in HDR.

The HDRx "normal" mode probably has a whole other set of redeeming features, but apparently needs the same processing power. I was guessing it would use a simple dual data stream - something like two different shutter speeds/angles, so 24 fps HDRx "normal" would be possible with no internal hardware modification. Wrong, but one data stream in HDRx is apparently completely normal, since Jim did say the normal footage could be recovered from the HDRx data stream. However, the other stream apparently has a lot of processed info, no doubt including a ton of metadata. And remember the metadata stream includes info from three motion sensors...

I think this "time machine" needs to do some very quick processing very early in the datastream in order to work efficiently and build that second datastream. Which is why I think all the talk of an HDR module on the poll thread is wishful thinking. Then again, I could be wrong about everything.
 
Last edited:
Álex Montoya said:
"Not having HDR on the Scarlet doesn't differentiate it sufficiently from the other prosumer cameras"?

Are you kidding?
Click to expand...

Maybe at this point in time, this may be untrue. But I'm not counting on the competitors slacking.
 
Jannard said:
This is the "Magic Mode". It has a characteristic we really like. It leaves a telltale sharper/blur combination in fast moving objects or a very fast pan. You actually see more of what's going on but still get the "feel" of motion blur. My bet is that many will prefer this mode to the "normalized" mode. We are really excited about it. For those that want to match a traditional look... we do that too. Keep in mind that in slow moving objects or pans... there isn't much difference to traditional motion blur (since there isn't much).

Jim
Click to expand...

Long time lurker here, but I had to bring my own theory on how the Magic Mode works based on Jim's description of the blur characteristics:

Let's say we have a 180 degree shutter speed. Instead of having a continuous exposure over the 180 degrees, lets divide it in to three 60 degree exposures taken consequently without gap between them.
Let's take the middle exposure of the three and save it as one stream.
Then let's add the three exposures together and save it as the other stream.

Now we have a separate exposure that is only one third of the whole, clearly giving much more information to the highlights (1 1/2 stops?) , but covering only middle part of the motion blur, thus describing the sharper feel of the Magic Mode motion blur.

By varying the different exposure lengths we can manipulate how much the dynamic range is expanded, for example instead of three times 60 degrees, a series like 80;20;80 where the middle exposure would be only 20 degrees, thus giving much more dynamic extension.

Hope this makes sense, because I have to go to sleep now.

- henri laurikka
 
Jannard said:
The jury is still out on Scarlet and HDR but it just does not have the processing power of an EPIC.

I have to wonder if Scarlet owners would prefer HDR in their cameras if they had to pay extra for it. We could up the processing power by adding boards but that will cost money and I'm not sure if Scarlet buyers will go for it. Some feedback on this would be helpful on another thread in the Scarlet section of reduser. Given the change in development path, board costs, an additional ASIC and "stuff", we are probably looking at an additional $1000 more or less.

If we did this, Scarlet could have both EasyHDR™ at 30fps and HDRx™ to 60fps.

Just thinking out loud here...

Someone want to start a thread there? It should be good for a lively debate.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,

Do you know how many FPS we get while shooting HDR on our Scarlets right now?

None. That's how much.

Thirty/sixty FPS in HDR sounds stellar. I'll take two. Thanks.
 
Wow. shooting at night has never been morre rewarding. keep breaking new ground guys.
 
Awesome!

Any chance you guys could just take this out to the desert or beach and shoot some outdoor footage to show off the HDRx?
 
Steve Wake said:
+1

There's never anything wrong with constructive criticism. And I'm sure the RED team is also picking apart the footage frame by frame, too.
Click to expand...

It's a work in progress so picking every detail apart isn't worth it.
 
Deanan said:
It's a work in progress so picking every detail apart isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

OK. I can understand that. Like showing a rough cut to the wrong people, who then start nit-picking over technical details rather than admiring the potential of the great story you're putting together.

I'm just doing some unusually boring work today. But I should probably find something better to do than picking my nits in public.

Looks great. Really!!
 
Magic Motion without HDR??

Magic Motion without HDR??

Is it possible to get Magic Motion without invoking HDR? Even if we invoke HDR and set it to 0 stops? I can see applications for this.

I'd love to see some dialogue footage with sync sound using Magic Motion to see how it treats people's faces. I mean, I'd REALLY love to see that. Please, please, please, please.
 
OK, so I think I'm right about the two overlapping exposures - one longer than the other. Can see in the pans the motion blurs are different, as expected...
 
Jim, you took that video standing exactly where I did a Nissan ad back about a week before NAB '08. We shot in that little roundabout you're standing in. Let's just say that the contrast from the M footage from that night to what I'm seeing here is INSANE.

So excited.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top