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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cannon 5d Image evaluation...

R

Robert Permenter

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So I had the opportunity to view one of Vincent Laforet clips on a large screen.
I'll give some technical details first.

We were playing one of the raw clips he had available awhile back. (Its the one were the male walks into frame and kisses the female.)
We were using a Mac Pro tower, converting the DVI to 1080i @ 59.97, HDSDI. I had to funnel it through our swicher and then out to our projectors at HDSDI.
We were using the Barco FLM 18's. The screen was a 12' x 21'.

So we were downconverting the raw 1080p to 1080i, although I don't think it would have made much difference. (maybe it would to some.) :) I felt the image broke down quite a bit once projected at that size. The whole image looked "mottled" or "splochy". The noise was much more pervasive. I could see the noise in places I hadn't on my laptop. (Big surprise, right.) The details were very weird and strange looking. The whole image just looked strange. Almost as if it was a 480i clip uprezed and interpolated to HD. You could really see how hard it was to hold the focus. The whole clip looked like a bad focus pull. :)

I just wanted to let everyone know. I really had fun just putting it up on screen and analyzing the image. I really feel that a 2/3's Scarlet is going to be the way to go. The Canon image just fell apart once on a big screen.
 
I have been shooting a lot of tests, and the image is very suspect. One issue is this strange Moiré pattern shit, which reminds me of that chart Jim posted. Take a close look at this 100% crop of the white lines in a parking lot. What the is that blue patten noise in the totally white lines?

2gwf78k.jpg


Other shots of mine look pretty good. The more light, the better. I think the bottom line is that certain shots are going to look like crap, and others, under optimal (to the 5D) conditions, might be acceptable. I'm going to really put the camera through its paces next week.
 
Yeah one thing I forgot to mention about the noise. It looks like there was a Color Noise filter on the image. (Like the one in Photoshop.)

And I'm not necessarily completely bashing the Canon. For my current situation and funds, I feel that the Scarlet will be for sale by the time I will be in a position to buy a new camera. I also don't have anything invested in glass. I'm starting fresh. So it seems like a logical plan.:biggrin: We'll see what happens.
 
At high ISO, there is a lot of chroma noise. There is kind of a work-around that might be possible by locking ISO at 800 or 1600. But left to its own devices, at night, the camera will ramp ISO up to 3200, and that causes a lot of chroma noise.
 
Hey Tom, I'll be here with this setup for another week or so. I would love if you get the chance, to send me some of your "best" footage and I could take a look at it? I could PM you with an email. Let me know thanks!
 
I think we really have to understand the purpose of the video features in the 5D. I seriously doubt Canon wanted to compete with RED One or even the Scarlet. I think it is basically a stills camera and hey BTW it can shoot video..
 
Noisy, compressed yes. But compared to what? Put up a DV signal or an HDV and what do you see? And I'm way more into the depth of field and great Canon optics than the actual recorded format. Sure a good EX1 or HVX200 blow it away for quality of signal, but that's not the whole enchilada.

Noah
 
Noah, you know I tend to agree with you, but I actually have the cam now and am testing it, hoping for the best, but the real issue is the Moiré pattern problem.

What is up with those blue pattern noises in the parking lot white lines? That is a huge problem under certain circumstances.
 
Tom said:
I have been shooting a lot of tests, and the image is very suspect. One issue is this strange Moiré pattern shit, which reminds me of that chart Jim posted. Take a close look at this 100% crop of the white lines in a parking lot. What the is that blue patten noise in the totally white lines?

2gwf78k.jpg


Other shots of mine look pretty good. The more light, the better. I think the bottom line is that certain shots are going to look like crap, and others, under optimal (to the 5D) conditions, might be acceptable. I'm going to really put the camera through its paces next week.
Click to expand...

just curious, what lens are you using?

at first i thought it was some sort of CA, but then i noticed the other white lines looked fine.

there's something all over the car too. something odd about it.
 
24 f/1.4 L. i don't think it's the lens.

another problem is that the 24 breathes like crazy. i sent some footage to Evin last night and he was shocked at how bad the breathing was.
 
Thanks Tom. To me that's not too good to see. I like Canon D-SLRs, and they've always given me good IQ, so I'm quite surprised at what you're showing us in the video. I'm seeing lots of funny colors on the horizontal edges. They shouldn't be there, right?
 
i didn't it was the lens too. the other white lines and highlights look fine. that's too bad about the breathing on the 24L. have you tried the 24-70L? I've got that one, but no mount. having to use nikon for now... the 50 1.8 has terrible ca. going to samy's tomorrow to try the 1.4.

by the way, is that a grab from the video or a still shot?

because if that's a still shot, then i'm wondering if canon really fucked up and compromised their great stills with the video feature.
 
Albert, you are right. Those blue patterns should not be there at all.

My frame grabs are only video grabs, and have nothing to do with the 5D Mark II shooting stills.

But you are right... it's very disappointing to see Canon putting out a half-ass video capability on the 5Dm2.
 
Thanks Tom. I really like the Canon stills IQ. They seem to do things pretty right. Surely they know how to do it right for video too. I know the 5D2 is not a "pro" 1 series camera, but surely this must tarnish their reputation a bit? Canon are the imaging experts, right? Will they do video right on the 1D mk IV? Anyone heard any rumors on new Canon 1 series cameras? I see the D3x from Nikon didn't do video? Is that because they thought they couldn't do it right, or pro photographers don't want video or what?
 
Albert, sadly what has happened is that Canon has gone out of their way to disable the ability of the 5D2 to shoot video. Probably to protect their HD lens sales, or their consumer 1080p handycam market. Why else didn't they offer 24p, which is easier than 30p?

Even sadder is that some Red One owners want Jim to follow that same business model and disable features on the Scarlet cameras. :huh:
 
These are the real world tests I've been waiting to see from this camera. The images speak for themselves.
 
Noah Kadner said:
Noisy, compressed yes. But compared to what? Put up a DV signal or an HDV and what do you see? And I'm way more into the depth of field and great Canon optics than the actual recorded format. Sure a good EX1 or HVX200 blow it away for quality of signal, but that's not the whole enchilada.

Noah
Click to expand...

I have seen Standard Def video up there also. And to my eyes it looks about the same. I think you'll get the Depth of field you want but 5D is just killing it with its pixel skipping, choice of compresser and lack of processing. You lose so much detail. The well shot Standard Def video looks almost as good as the 5D clip.

As a note I also have Tompson/Grassvalley LDK-6000 HD cameras on this show and they look spectacular. (I realize that this is not much of a comparison money wise but I have HD sourcing to compare to. For reference we have them set to 1080i.)
 
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