Focus....

[Dara Yem]

Nice!

Nice!

Nice work guys and Congrat!

Little Dog shooting the Big Dog...

Jim

 

[Andy Jarosz]

Now I am confused. Aren't we talking about the video in Jim's first post in this thread? That is clearly a Canon 85mm lens.
The camera/lens that filmed the video was a Scarlet 8x fixed.

Haha, here's what happened:

Distinct lack of markings on the fixed zoom barrel makes me wonder 'Is this final or a prototype?'
Will an AC be able to see markings or screen only?

If you use the touchscreen AF, you won't give a shit about markings...

BTW... have you seen the markings?

Jim

My question was if they'd be OLED, as we've seen on the other RED Digital zooms.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

still lenses have a different approach to keeping a subject in focus as it moves than motion (regular video lenses) where the lens is programmed (or has different type of motors) to softly accomodate the focus as a subject, for example, approaches you.

Enrique, two things to separate here: optics and the motor. Still camera lenses may not be optically ideal for motion capture if the focal length slightly changes while focusing.

The choice of motor affects the torque, how quickly the focus can be changed from one position to another, and precision, how accurately the lens finds the position corresponding with the desired focus. The required torque depends on the mass (or more precisely on the moment of inertia) of the mechanical parts.

Thinking of how fast and accurately the L-series Canon EF-lenses with USM motors focus on moving objects, they should work mechanically pretty well. Still camera lenses are also smaller than cinema lenses and thus need smaller motors to turn the focus ring. Still, it remains to see how good EF-lenses are when shooting 5K and 100fps. I mean, there's not much time to set the focus between the frames.

Jim seems to suggest the upcoming Red lenses will focus faster than the Canon or Nikon still lenses and thus will be netter for motion capture.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Very cool thread...

The auto-focus looks promising... and fast....

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

so while i may be in the old school mind of thought as far as focus goes..

using an AC to pull, as that is part of the story telling...

i am almost curious if red is developing a way to get every single focus point with a lens, and then being able to manipulate that focus point in post..

the RAW version of focus....

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

if so...

good bye focus pullers

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

if so...

good bye focus pullers

Well... On a more readily available basis we could use a focus detector module.

Actor wears some kind of radio wave emitter, module detects distance and feeds the camera the information that adjusts focus on the fly.

300mm, F2.8, handheld, camera operator jumping up and down, focus always dead on.

:emote_popcorn:

 

[Enrique Blein]

Jim seems to suggest the upcoming Red lenses will focus faster than the Canon or Nikon still lenses and thus will be netter for motion capture.

So you think it implies that maybe the autofocus on Canon and Nikon lenses will not suit motion capture (specially in ENG situations of unexpected doc style recording) ?

Thanks for having the time to respond.

 

[baldusi]

Don't forget... we have a RED AF lens program. Our lenses are cinema grade with well controlled breathing. They also will cover FF35. 1st lens is the 24-75mm F2.8. There is a wide zoom and a long zoom to follow.
Jim

Would you consider making an EF mount RED lens? I understand that you might consider it a strategic assent and don't want to compete. But I understand that a Canon DSLR can't really compete with and EPIC and thus you won't lose a customer to Canon body. May be, if the design is simple enough, you could conver RED EF lenses back to EPIC or DSMC mount, for a fee, off course. Or even allow some custom extensions on the EF protocol and get all the RED features when using RED EF lenses on an EPIC with the EF mount. That would be like future proofing the RED EF glass. Ditto for the Nikon, but their system is not 100% electronic, so I guess you'd either have to make them Electronic Diaphragm, and thus only work with D700 or better, or make a whole translation from analog diaphragm control to digital.

 

[Bill Anderson]

For motion: It would be very nice if one could program/set various focus points/distances and "scroll through" (tethered interface) to implement- Unlike follow focus mechanics and speeds, this would facilitate an almost immediate snap to focus, i.e 3 to 5 to 20 feet at will, even on stationary objects. Capable of any number of distance variations and speeds from slow ramps to immediate. Auto focus aside, I'll be surprised if we're still using mechanical follow focus gear too much longer.????

 

[baldusi]

Does the focus work by phase change or contrast detection? How is the AF system in that way? Did you embedded in the sensor, used a pellicle, a prism or other system?

 

[Graham_C]

I hope you guys can feel some of the excitement..

Feel it?..i`m bouncing off the bloody ceiling!..I`m sure most if not all avid Redusers are doing just the same..goodness knows how you`re feeling Jarred at Redground zero,it must be amazing !!

 

[HannodiRosa]

if so...

good bye focus pullers

Yes my exact thoughts as well...

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I'll be surprised if we're still using mechanical follow focus gear too much longer.????

there is no way in hell autofocus will take over mechanical focus..
for one.. the millions invested into cine lenses that are NOT auto, are not going to ditch their lenses.

However, If red developed a motor system that connects to the camera to control focus externally... then maybe the follow focus will die eventually

 

[PatC]

I dont think FF is going anywhere. However I am very excited that i can use my still lenses properly on epic.

 

[Jay Gannon]

there is no way in hell autofocus will take over mechanical focus..
for one.. the millions invested into cine lenses that are NOT auto, are not going to ditch their lenses.

However, If red developed a motor system that connects to the camera to control focus externally... then maybe the follow focus will die eventually

Something like a Preston motor hooked into the autofocus/programmable follow focus of the camera would be killer.

I think the fact that the Epic was shown on that 3rd party MoCo system as one of the few outings with any 3rd party gear so far should not be overlooked, Jim isn't one to do something without reason neither is Ted. I think MoCo and automation might play a large part in Epics toolbox.

 

[Bill Anderson]

I don't think we'll be saying goodbye to focus pullers, just the way they implement nailing focus. I expect there will be an even greater need for "focus pullers" as these new mechanics open up more complex/creative possibilities.

 

[Jeffrey A.]

We have programmed in all L-series Canon lenses except for the Tilt-Shifts and some of the big monster dogs above 400mm.. we add more daily as we get them.

Current L-series or old ones too? I'm particularly keen on using the old 50mm f/1.0L. If you need a sample for programming I'd be happy to let you use mine.

 

[Bill Anderson]

there is no way in hell autofocus will take over mechanical focus..
for one.. the millions invested into cine lenses that are NOT auto, are not going to ditch their lenses.

However, If red developed a motor system that connects to the camera to control focus externally... then maybe the follow focus will die eventually

I wasn't talking about auto-focus, but another way of FF: less mechanics. It's not if, but when.

 

[Justin Chin]

I doubt the extinction of a good focus puller is nigh. In low budget work, yes, but that market often goes without a focus puller anyway. In most other work I wouldn't go without one. Focus is as much a creative decision and a part of the scene as the framing. Racking from the foreground subject to one in the background can be a very delicate task. I'm hoping that the new Red features just makes it easier for the puller to hit and adjust their marks.

As for DSLR lenses, my understanding is that the motors are made to snap to their focus points and are not great at micro adjustments in focus. Perhaps that's the function of the hardware before the lens, and if that's the case then the Red guys certainly have the opportunity to improve on that.

A related anecdote: A week ago I had a major series of jib shots for a short film and both of the jib owner's wireless motors failed during setup. Luckily the shot could be performed from a whip and using our FF unit. My AC was getting his workout that day. Plus, he had a stop pull on one of the shots as well. Yes, I like my "oners".