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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First Look - Schneider Xenon FF-Prime Lenses

I'm honestly really stoked for these lenses. Now they have a near-comlete set, with the only missing length being an 18 or 20, these are definitely gonna be worth the investment. I think they will destroy both the CP.2's, and the Canon Cine Primes for one reason. They are built from the ground up for cine use, and aren't (admittedly higher quality) rehoused stills glass. They're also cheaper then the Canon Primes, and a smaller footprint than both the Zeiss and Canon primes. I can't wait for them to start shipping.
 
I'll ask on this thread too... If anyone in Australia has an early order on these, I'd very much appreciate being able to at least hold them before I invest. Happy to fly to wherever I need to be to check them out! I've given up looking for a Leica R set
 
Thank you very much Phil for those amazing tests! These appear to be exactly what the independent film world needed at precisely at this time.

However I got a few questions for those of you out there who know more than myself about using these lenses (or both CN-E and CPs. For that matter) with an MX sensor.
I’m looking to purchase some glass in this price range along with a Scarlet MX but am a bit concerned about the lack of wides that FF lenses with an MX sensor offer, and also the file size of shooting 4k on every project.

I'm assuming when used with an MX sensor the crop factor of these lenses is basically going to be 1.62X at 4k and 3.25X at 2K. I mean that’s some intense cropping and I’m guessing basically renders shooting 2K highly unfavourable, meaning I’m going you have to shoot for the most part 4K I guess.

So from what I understand even at 4K the 25, 35, 50, 75, and 100 that shall be released first will become roughly a 40, 57, 81, 121, and 162 respectively.
Would it be worth looking into the Duclos modded 11-16 Tokina? That would allow for an 18-26mm lightweight zoom. But would it hold up quality and look-wise to the Schneider at T2.8, or would there be significant differences?

Also how high of a compression is acceptable for 1080p online streaming? I’ve seen a lot of people say 12:1 is the recommended but would anything above that until 18:1 be realistically usable? Sorry for this out of place question!
 
I wouldn't shoot less than 4K if you can help it. Naturally 5K is even better. The quality is so significant that's its hard not to shoot optimally. If you want to shoot for 1080 delivery, consider shooting to an external recorder. As for a wide lens, the sigma 18-35mm 1.8 seems to be a big favourite at the moment.


Jordan Alber said:
Thank you very much Phil for those amazing tests! These appear to be exactly what the independent film world needed at precisely at this time.

However I got a few questions for those of you out there who know more than myself about using these lenses (or both CN-E and CPs. For that matter) with an MX sensor.
I’m looking to purchase some glass in this price range along with a Scarlet MX but am a bit concerned about the lack of wides that FF lenses with an MX sensor offer, and also the file size of shooting 4k on every project.

I'm assuming when used with an MX sensor the crop factor of these lenses is basically going to be 1.62X at 4k and 3.25X at 2K. I mean that’s some intense cropping and I’m guessing basically renders shooting 2K highly unfavourable, meaning I’m going you have to shoot for the most part 4K I guess.

So from what I understand even at 4K the 25, 35, 50, 75, and 100 that shall be released first will become roughly a 40, 57, 81, 121, and 162 respectively.
Would it be worth looking into the Duclos modded 11-16 Tokina? That would allow for an 18-26mm lightweight zoom. But would it hold up quality and look-wise to the Schneider at T2.8, or would there be significant differences?

Also how high of a compression is acceptable for 1080p online streaming? I’ve seen a lot of people say 12:1 is the recommended but would anything above that until 18:1 be realistically usable? Sorry for this out of place question!
Click to expand...
 
It really depends on how you shoot and what you shoot Jordan. Personally, it's been years since I've shot below 4K now. 3K occasionally on Scarlet. Even if I'm delivering a 1080p baby I'd still shoot in 4K, 5K, 6K, etc...

Typically in the world of narrative motion picture work, at least as long as I've been working in LA, a full range of lenses is 18mm-85mm on Super35. Which is a fairly similar format to the Scarlet-X with Mysterium-X at 4K. However, some prefer to shoot wider. I fall in that realm occasionally. I have the stock 11-16mm (don't use it that often though) and the Duclos mod is top not. In terms of a range it's hard to find a better deal on a lens like this out there.

I fall on a slightly different camp as a full range for me is 14-300mm, which actually includes lengths like 135mm and 200mm. That's just the way I am. Got a couple fisheyes if I need that look and FOV too. I will say I do 90% of my work in a 18-100mm range though.

In terms of Mysterium-X and REDCODE RAW the typical mindset is when capturing at 4K or above try to use compression ratios between 5:1 - 8:1. High frequency detail like say a forest with fallen leaves, people like to use 3:1. Overcranking obviously leads to higher compression ratios. Some will go 9:1-12:1 for a 1080p delivery. I'm not one of those folks though. Anamorphic is typically 4:1 if you're curious. Dragon might change how we think about REDCODE and compression because at this point it really feels like it's holding more detail.
 
Cheers for the info guys, much needed and appreciated!

Looking into that sigma lens bob it looks well worth its buck, definitely going to try and get my hands on one of those beauties as well. But has anyone got any knowledge of how it stands in terms of breathing and image shift with focusing? Either way if my calculations are correct would give me a 30-42mm on a Scarlet, which is something I would need greatly.

I fully agree with you Phil on your range for film narrative, so would I be right in assuming that the Duclos Tokina is also a FF35 that would give me an 18-26 focal length range in the wides, or are there any other lenses that would work better together with the Schneider’s in order to expand that range?
 
Hi Phil

Do you know if you can swap from canon EF to PL or you have to choose what lens set you want?
 
I'll hit them up this week to see if that's changed. Last I heard they were still interchangeable. But anything could change before the full pruduction model.
 
Cool. BTW, Ryan is no longer at Schneider??? What's the word?

Phil Holland said:
I'll hit them up this week to see if that's changed. Last I heard they were still interchangeable. But anything could change before the full pruduction model.
Click to expand...
 
He's moved in to a new opportunity with a company we all know and use more regularly. You'll see a press release soon. Sad to see him go, but this new opportunity has a lot of potential.
 
Josef Gatti said:
Thanks Phil, please let us know. This would break my heart
Click to expand...

Whelp, they are still listed as a changeable mount and I just got word that they still are at the moment.
 
Just got Matthew's (of Duclos) email, regarding the Xenons. Looks like it "could" be that the set ships in Q4/2013, but Q1.2014 cannot be ruled out...

Thank you very much

Fury
 
The 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm lenses will be begin shipping later this month.

The 100mm will be available at the end of February, and the 25mm the first week in April.

The lenses are available in PL, Canon and Nikon mounts.

Xenon FF-Prime T 2.1 / 25mm T 2.1 – 22 Full Frame Lens $ 5,750.00 US
Xenon FF-Prime T 2.1 / 35mm T 2.1 – 22 Full Frame Lens $ 3,995.00 Us
Xenon FF-Prime T 2.1 / 50mm T 2.1 – 22 Full Frame Lens $ 3,995.00 US
Xenon FF-Prime T 2.1 / 75mm T 2.1 – 22 Full Frame Lens $ 3,995.00 US
Xenon FF-Prime T 2.1 / 100mm T 2.1 – 22 Full Frame Lens $ 3,995.00 US
 
So probably a silly question, but if it is built to resolve 4K, will these lenses still be able to capture details in 6K?
 
Andy Roberts said:
So probably a silly question, but if it is built to resolve 4K, will these lenses still be able to capture details in 6K?
Click to expand...

Not totally a silly question, but yes is the answer.
 
I'm thinking/hoping that mechanically, being that these aren't rehoused stills like the Compact Primes or CN-Es, that these will likely compete very well, right? $4k per lens isn't bad, but not amazing like those Zunows were (on paper). Even still, I feel like ACs will choose these of the CP2s if given the option… assuming that the mechanics are peachy (what say you Phil? 300deg focus rotation? Amazing marks?)

Are they planning an 18mm t2.1?
 
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