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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

First Look: Interchangeable OLPF on Dragon

Matt, I agree with you, i am liking more the LL olpf. Is it me or in the exterior shot when ND is applied i see shift of color and saturation on the STH olpf? I see more consistency in LL olpf. From those jpegs, i really cant tell that the SKH olpf has 1.3 stops more on the highlights, they look almost about the same.
 
So as some people suspected the shortage of V1 OLPFs was due to RED updating and improving the sauce? The LL OLPF is has been tweaked. Nice.
 
Donald MJ Anderson said:
So as some people suspected the shortage of V1 OLPFs was due to RED updating and improving the sauce? The LL OLPF is has been tweaked. Nice.
Click to expand...

So if I want the old low light olpf... One can never have enough of the options if they exist right? :)

I guess it's all good this new lowlight olpf seams to handle pretty much everything. So probably that sits on the camera and then for the studio and fashion stuff I can bring the little skin tone olpf as an extra treat for the Still guys that cares only about that and have + all the lights they could ever need.
 
Björn Benckert said:
So if I want the old low light olpf... One can never have enough of the options if they exist right? :)

I guess it's all good this new lowlight olpf seams to handle pretty much everything. So probably that sits on the camera and then for the studio and fashion stuff I can bring the little skin tone olpf as an extra treat for the Still guys that cares only about that and have + all the lights they could ever need.
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If the V1 is end of line I guess its not available.?

It is a little strange that the Low Light now functions so close to the high light. The reason it is strange is it makes the Standard or middle OLPF seem like splitting hairs. I was expecting larger more pronounced difference between each OLPF.

Would be better to have a extreme Low Light OLPF to make the choice more obvious. But just now once the goldilocks OLPF arrives we will have potentially 3 OLPFs that are very close to each other performance wise.

Glodilocks OLPF suggests 3 olpfs that are spread between Too Cold, Too Hot and just right. Looks like we might have - almost Right, Right and a Tiny bit more right if you squint really hard.
 
great tests Phil! that said the texture and look of the STH OLPF with DEB applied seems pretty much perfect for my taste at iso2000. look forward to having the choice of the LLO though for some ridiculously dark places thou.
 
Phil, this is great! Very helpful and useful.
Thank you!
 
Great work.

Questions:

+) If the new LLO has a coating that tweaks (tames) the infrared side of the RED signal - does that mean Red can extract a greater range of DR .... and with 1.3 stops more SNR than the SKO OLPF?

+) Did they tweak the STO OLPF as well?

+) Does the LLO block more light than the V1 OLPF (just curious)

+) Can you see any faults with the LLO OLPF?

+) Is it worth doing some (red) saturation tests with the LLO?

AJ
 
Phil Holland said:
Considering that shot from Se7en was 200 ASA I'd say both of these OLPFs could do that :)

Mainly it occurs when the source is hitting the lens or when a point source is in frame.

I'll see what I can do though.
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haha of course. I'm just curious to see if in a high contrast situation at say 800ISO and a flashlight beam hits the camera, how does the orb flare react or is there just a halation around the source flashlight?
 
Phil Holland said:






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The new low light OLPF has an obvious magenta tint, not nice on hair and skin. I assume that no grading or WB was applied. However, the texture of the low light OLPF ist much better. Personally I think that Red's R&D on this matter is not done yet.

Thanks for the very informative thread, Phil!


Hans
 
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  • #94
Rodrigo Prata said:
Phil, those indoor tests were LLO OLPF or STH OLPF?
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Both of course, but those stills are from the STH. Here's ISO 800 grabs from the same setup:








Antony Newman said:
Great work.

Questions:

1) If the new LLO has a coating that tweaks (tames) the infrared side of the RED signal - does that mean Red can extract a greater range of DR .... and with 1.3 stops more SNR than the SKO OLPF?

2) Did they tweak the STO OLPF as well?

3) Does the LLO block more light than the V1 OLPF (just curious)

4) Can you see any faults with the LLO OLPF?

5) Is it worth doing some (red) saturation tests with the LLO?

AJ
Click to expand...

Lots of questions, I'll put numbers on them to help.

1. Not exactly, it's more about where that Dynamic Range is utilized across the ISO ratings and sensor calibration.

2. As far as I can tell, not really.

3. I don't believe so, but I'm still testing.

4. Just the optical artifacts of the glowing orb and smaller aperture red dot grid. There is a slight color various between the two, but both are producing very high quality color in reality. The STH being the winner here in color reproduction.

5. Still testing, but I'm doing everything you can imagine to make sure both of these OLPFs work for feature film use, which they are in my mind. The only real interesting thing outside of the Interchangeable OLPF concept being new is that the LLO OLPF got a slight update which has made me want to dig deeper on that front.
 
Phil I am curious to know, if you see it too, that in the exterior shots, LL OLPF is more magenta and STH is a little greenish compared, but..... in the last interior shots that you posted I see the other way around, more greenish the LL OPLF vs STH OLPF.
 
Jacobo Martinez said:
Phil I am curious to know, if you see it too, that in the exterior shots, LL OLPF is more magenta and STH is a little greenish compared, but..... in the last interior shots that you posted I see the other way around, more greenish the LL OPLF vs STH OLPF.
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I see this
 
Phil Holland said:
I believe that's coming in a future firmware update revealing the metadata tag inside Redcine-X Pro.

There's this post from the F.A.Q. that shows you on the hardware which OLPF is installed:

https://support.red.com/entries/100167336-How-can-I-tell-which-OLPF-type-is-installed-in-my-DRAGON-camera-

When I walk up to a "stranger" Dragon the quickest way for me to find out if it's the LLO OLPF or not is just smashing the lens down to T11-16 and hitting it with a flashlight. If you see that dot spread, you know what you're looking at.
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perfect- thank you
 
Oh man, the noise is so nice (even in a tiny 720p image) in the LL but the color is so nice in the skintone. If we put a hot-mirror in front of the lens would we get the skintone color or is it more than just IR cross talk?
 
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From the daylight examples, I wouldn't read too much into anything that's not hit by the key light directly. There's a lot of ambient contamination of the sun shooting through the trees, bouncing around, and making a lot of ambient chaos because there were a few minutes that passed between the OLPF swap, so it's not totally controlled. The "pointy-ness" of the sunlight and even the fill light hitting my face has changed.

The sun color should be more or less consistent though.

The real variation in the palette is more or less visible on the chart:


 
Phil Holland said:
From the daylight examples, I wouldn't read too much into anything that's not hit by the key light directly. There's a lot of ambient contamination of the sun shooting through the trees, bouncing around, and making a lot of ambient chaos because there were a few minutes that passed between the OLPF swap, so it's not totally controlled. The "pointy-ness" of the sunlight and even the fill light hitting my face has changed.

The sun color should be more or less consistent though.

The real variation in the palette is more or less visible on the chart:
Click to expand...

So the main difference will be visible in the red's and magenta's? Those seem to have the most variance, but even then not by much.
 
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