First Look: Interchangeable OLPF on Dragon

[HD Hildebrand]

One thing I am noticing is that appears the orbs have been "lessened" somehow.

From my old match test with the same lens:

You seem to imply the orbs are lessened in the new low light olpf vs the old low light. Or are you saying old low light vs new skin tone?

 

[Phil Holland]

You seem to imply the orbs are lessened in the new low light olpf vs the old low light. Or are you saying old low light vs new skin tone?

Nope. What I'm saying is the edge of the orb of the V1 OLPF versus the Low Light Optimized OLPF seems to be slightly different. Like it appears to be a different coating perhaps?

Difficult to tell without having the older system here to do a side by side. The sample frames I posted are from a bit ago now.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

.... tell potential renters why they are or are NOT allowed to change it in the field (because they're stupid and will try this tat the beach or some ungodly location).

That's why I suggested (to Nate today @ cinec), that only people with valid camera serial #s should be allowed to buy the OLPFs. That way, no renter would have access to it unless of course the renter is a Red cam owner as well. At least this will enforce some level of control before 3rd party swappable OLPFs hit the masses and hopefully by then there's a common public ethics and responsibility as regards swappable OLPFs handling and consequences in field

 

[Martin Stevens]

Truly great thread and tests Phil.

I think both OLPF look very usable, and personally love the Highlight optimized OLPF.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Phil, if you got the time could you please do the following....

Shoot a setup with:
a: olpf1 & olpf1 color science.
b: olpf1 & olpf2 color science.
c: olpf2 & olpf2 color science.
d: olpf2 & olpf1 color science.
e: no olpf and olpf1 color science.
f: no olpf and olpf2 color science.


Preferably with the camera and setup all locked down.

A r3d from each of the above would be really interesting to see. Having those you could figure out how much light the olpf's eat and get a better understanding for what they do and what the color science is compensating for. I know the no olpf pix would be out of focus and colours and completely wrong etc. but I think it would be interesting to see the light levels change in between these options.

I know it's a lot to ask as it it would mean you would have to take off and on mount and olpf quite a few times,so quite a hassel to do it.

so a little quicker way would be to record some exposure without mount or lens.... just having a tiny bit of light hitting the sensor....

please.. I know you too would want to see the result

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, if you got the time could you please do the following....

Shoot a setup with:
a: olpf1 & olpf1 color science.
b: olpf1 & olpf2 color science.
c: olpf2 & olpf2 color science.
d: olpf2 & olpf1 color science.
e: no olpf and olpf1 color science.
f: no olpf and olpf2 color science.


Preferably with the camera and setup all locked down.

A r3d from each of the above would be really interesting to see. Having those you could figure out how much light the olpf's eat and get a better understanding for what they do and what the color science is compensating for. I know the no olpf pix would be out of focus and colours and completely wrong etc. but I think it would be interesting to see the light levels change in between these options.

I know it's a lot to ask as it it would mean you would have to take off and on mount and olpf quite a few times,so quite a hassel to do it.

so a little quicker way would be to record some exposure without mount or lens.... just having a tiny bit of light hitting the sensor....

please.. I know you too would want to see the result

I've already done it.

While informative to a degree, it's sort of silly, but here's one example of the LLO OLPF Calibration and the STH OLPF installed:

The biggest problem of making any sort of critical thoughts on the "no OLPF" method is there isn't a calibration in the camera nor an OLPF to truly support it yet. There will be a better time to do this test in reality.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Phil I know you can answer this. Where in the metadata can I see which OLPF a particular clip was shot with? Or where in the cam? Will I only be able to tell on the beta firmware? I'm working with a rented dragon Thursday and want to know...

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil I know you can answer this. Where in the metadata can I see which OLPF a particular clip was shot with? Or where in the cam? Will I only be able to tell on the beta firmware? I'm working with a rented dragon Thursday and want to know...

I believe that's coming in a future firmware update revealing the metadata tag inside Redcine-X Pro.

There's this post from the F.A.Q. that shows you on the hardware which OLPF is installed:

https://support.red.com/entries/100167336-How-can-I-tell-which-OLPF-type-is-installed-in-my-DRAGON-camera-

When I walk up to a "stranger" Dragon the quickest way for me to find out if it's the LLO OLPF or not is just smashing the lens down to T11-16 and hitting it with a flashlight. If you see that dot spread, you know what you're looking at.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

Would a monochrome olpf make our dragons identical to the pre existing monochrome epic dragons?

 

[Daniel Reed]

Great work Phil, thanks for keeping us in the loop. I can definately see a desire for the LL filter for pulling off early scorsese looks like mean streets or after hours; otherwise, the STH still appears the way to go for now (The DS olpf may merit use for sub 20amp light projects when it gets released).

 

[Phil Holland]

Would a monochrome olpf make our dragons identical to the pre existing monochrome epic dragons?

Nope. That's a Bayer pattern thing and isn't a function of the OLPF. The IR Monochrome OLPF however will be tuned to shoot IR Monochrome I believe on color Dragons.


Did some daylight testing today. It looks like the Low Light Optimized OLPF is slightly better than the V1 OLPF as it's performing better under the exact same conditions, which is good news.

There was a slight time of day shift here, but the general idea is there:









**I'm not angry, I just have broad daylight in my eyes.

 

[Phil Holland]

Oh. And here's some grabs of the indoor test setup which was somewhat inspired by "The Knick".

 

[Nick Morrison]

So Phil, looks like Lowlight OLPF may have reduced some of the ORB flare...and has better colors yes? If so, RED deserves a nice round of applause for continuing to push for greater excellence.

 

[Charles Bergquist]

...nice work Phil, thanks for this. Interesting to see its performing different / better than V1 OLPF.

 

[Phil Holland]

So Phil, looks like Lowlight OLPF may have reduced some of the ORB flare...and has better colors yes? If so, RED deserves a nice round of applause for continuing to push for greater excellence.

...nice work Phil, thanks for this. Interesting to see its performing different / better than V1 OLPF.

I got word from Jarred earlier today that they "tweaked it" a bit which is providing the better performance. It's slight and essentially not producing a hard edge on the orb like it used to. It actually nearly feels like pleasing haliation overall and it's not nearly as distracting.

I'm noticing a bit more of an improvement in terms of IR shadow performance too, but it's a bit early to tell.

At the moment it's certainly safe to say it's slightly improved.

 

[Akin A]

Thanks for all of your testing Phil!

What conclusion did you draw from the outdoor shots of you and the mask outside of the house?
I can see that your skin appears to be more red in LLO and more greenish in STH, along with slightly better highlight roll-off in the corner of your forehead on STH. Anything I'm missing?

 

[Matt Ryan]

From these samples of the uncontrolled exterior, I'm liking the Low Light OLPF more. The interior setup looks great on the Low Light OLPF and I'm definitely not seeing as much orbs as in the past which is good.

Would it be possible for you to shoot a flashlight towards the camera sweeping across a hallway (detective shot style preferably wide open or no more than a t2.8) or such and repeat for both low light olpf and STH olpf in a night setting? I'd like to see if the orb comes about and how much you gain in the low light setting vs. the STH olpf and also how far you can push it. Both shot at the same aperture. Thanks Phil!

 

[Nick Morrison]

and I'm definitely not seeing as much orbs as in the past which is good.

If the orbs do just look like BPM "halation", then the Low Light OLPF could be a double winner...great for lowlight, and...with "halation" similar to what we see on Alexa and/or through filtration.

 

[David Battistella]

Looking good!

thanks again Phil.

looks like either one of these could be "standard" ?

Battistella

 

[Phil Holland]

From these samples of the uncontrolled exterior, I'm liking the Low Light OLPF more. The interior setup looks great on the Low Light OLPF and I'm definitely not seeing as much orbs as in the past which is good.

Would it be possible for you to shoot a flashlight towards the camera sweeping across a hallway (detective shot style preferably wide open or no more than a t2.8) or such and repeat for both low light olpf and STH olpf in a night setting? I'd like to see if the orb comes about and how much you gain in the low light setting vs. the STH olpf and also how far you can push it. Both shot at the same aperture. Thanks Phil!

Considering that shot from Se7en was 200 ASA I'd say both of these OLPFs could do that

Mainly it occurs when the source is hitting the lens or when a point source is in frame.

I'll see what I can do though.