EPIC QUAD BATTERY MODULE

[Jason Diamond]

I think this is the greatest thing about the DSMC, keeping a redvolt in the handle for when you forget. My only question is, does it tell you that its switched to a new power source?

Say I was using a redbrick, and that drained, so its switched to the sidehandle redvolt. Do I get a notification of the switch? If not, thatd be awesome to see implemented "Switched to REDVOLT (SH)"

Currently with just the side handle the difference is that the Lemo power will show as voltage and the REDVolt's in the handle show as percentage. Thats how we tell right now without the more advanced back module, unless there's something we're not seeing for setting anything in just a sidehandle/lemo config.

Jason

 

[Raphael Varandas]

NICE!
Thanks for sharing Tim.
Cheers,

 

[Jason Diamond]

thanks a lot, Häakon for your answer, but I guess I wasn't asking clear enough... I meant: can you keep rolling while swapping? I know they're hot swappable so you don't have to power down.
But it might be different when you're actually rolling?!

Patrick, check my post in this thread about recording during batteries auto swapping: HERE

Jason

 

[Adam S]

Why is the module locking mechanism/bolt on the BOTTOM of the modules? You're telling me I have to slide the camera back on the dovetail all the way to get my allen wrench under there to lock it??!?!! Or take it off the dovetail completely and flip it upside down and hold it in my lap?!?!?!! I'm supposed to do that in the dark, on the side of a hill, with a flashlight in my mouth??!?!

If there was no tool involved or the bolt was on top then that would be totally cool, I should be able to manage. But how that is now it's not AC friendly and is going to be a bitch to add/subtract modules. This is going to be one of those design flaws people will complain about ALOT. And yes, it is a design flaw. Please fix this now before modules start shipping. Ideally that lock is tool less and on top so there is no fiddling around.

Does the camera need to be off in order to add/subtract modules?

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Why is the module locking mechanism/bolt on the BOTTOM of the modules? You're telling me I have to slide the camera back on the dovetail all the way to get my allen wrench under there to lock it??!?!! Or take it off the dovetail completely and flip it upside down and hold it in my lap?!?!?!! I'm supposed to do that in the dark, on the side of a hill, with a flashlight in my mouth??!?!

If there was no tool involved or the bolt was on top then that would be totally cool, I should be able to manage. But how that is now it's not AC friendly and is going to be a bitch to add/subtract modules. This is going to be one of those design flaws people will complain about ALOT. And yes, it is a design flaw. Please fix this now before modules start shipping. Ideally that lock is tool less and on top so there is no fiddling around.

Does the camera need to be off in order to add/subtract modules?

Dude, did you see how fast he made a 1/4 turn in the video? In shadow on maybe take 3. Isnt the point of a dovetail to slide? and Im sorry, but who preps on the side of a hill? Why would you switch modules during a time critical shoot? 99% will prep their camera before shooting, in a well lit area.
The strength of the modules is the tongue and groove. The only thing I will agree with is it would be great if it had its own folding latch, like a micro innerspace latch, instead of a hex.
But its hardly a design flaw. It appears to be very well thought out and I would imagine after trial and error they realized that STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY, requires the lock to be on the bottom
as the top requires more rigidity for the tongue and groove elements

in the future, it would be appreciated if you worded your concerns with a little more tact and a lot less exasparation. thanks

I would love something like the 300m COWL latch... -Hexes are a bit more cumbersome. but again, it took a couple seconds to secure the module
and without a flashlight in his mouth

 

[Adam S]

We will add/subtract modules during different times/locations onset. We will go from handheld, tripod, steadicam, crane, underwater housing, car mount or any number of other configs that require we add/remove modules and we will be asked to do that when the sun is going down, coming up, or any other time sensitive situation. This is what we are asked to do onset on a daily basis.

Yes the camera can slide on the dovetail but with certain matteboxes/AKS it can't go past a certain point unless you remove those pieces of AKS, causing more problems and costing more time. I understand that stability is a huge concern with this type of camera design, that was a discussion I've had with many people.

Why can't the bolt be on the side of the module? I can deal with having 2 bolts, one on either side of the camera that controls each of those locking pins. You could even do a single long bolt all the way through which can be tightened from either side of the camera that controls both pins.

 

[Mark Pugh]

Just something to add to all that are a bit jealous of Tim and his hot swappable capabilities....

with the RED BRICK and the side handle with a RED VOLT you could already do a hot swap,

Hmm my mileage varies greatly.
With a battery in the side handle, camera turns off when a redbrick is disconnected.
And if the camera is up and powered by the Redvolt in the side handle, and a Red Brick is mounted, the camera will turn itself off.
Every time,
over several builds.

 

[Julio Quintana]

Why is the module locking mechanism/bolt on the BOTTOM of the modules? You're telling me I have to slide the camera back on the dovetail all the way to get my allen wrench under there to lock it??!?!! Or take it off the dovetail completely and flip it upside down and hold it in my lap?!?!?!! I'm supposed to do that in the dark, on the side of a hill, with a flashlight in my mouth??!?!

If there was no tool involved or the bolt was on top then that would be totally cool, I should be able to manage. But how that is now it's not AC friendly and is going to be a bitch to add/subtract modules. This is going to be one of those design flaws people will complain about ALOT. And yes, it is a design flaw. Please fix this now before modules start shipping. Ideally that lock is tool less and on top so there is no fiddling around.

Does the camera need to be off in order to add/subtract modules?

Oh, Adam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itn8TwFCO4M

 

[Adam S]

See the thing is Red looks to this forum for feedback on its products. If everyone is only saying "yeah Red, you are so amazing and you can do no wrong," then they can't improve upon anything. Then they are stuck in the mud and get left behind. Sure they have all sorts of ideas but sometimes it takes their users to come back to them and say well you got us 95% of the way their but these small tweaks would bring us the rest of the way there to a really good product.

Saying nothing is wrong doesn't help anyone. I thought the point of having beta testers was to give feedback whether it's positive or negative. If you're not seeing/saying what aspects can be improved upon then you shouldn't be one of the select a beta testers.

 

[Deanan]

See the thing is Red looks to this forum for feedback on its products. If everyone is only saying "yeah Red, you are so amazing and you can do no wrong," then they can't improve upon anything. Then they are stuck in the mud and get left behind. Sure they have all sorts of ideas but sometimes it takes their users to come back to them and say well you got us 95% of the way their but these small tweaks would bring us the rest of the way there to a really good product.

Saying nothing is wrong doesn't help anyone. I thought the point of having beta testers was to give feedback whether it's positive or negative. If you're not seeing/saying what aspects can be improved upon then you shouldn't be one of the select a beta testers.

We get all sorts of feedback constantly through reduser, email, and in
person. How you say something has a big impact on how it gets heard
whether it's positive or negative.

 

[Brook Willard]

We get all sorts of feedback constantly through reduser, email, and in
person. How you say something has a big impact on how it gets heard
whether it's positive or negative.

I know a guy like that... heheh. Communication is good... civil communication is infinitely more effective.

 

[Casey Green]

yup in the bottom of your LCD it will tell you which power source is being used, and even tell you which battery is currently used in a module. If you tap the battery icon on the touchscreen it will pop up a window that shows you all the power supplies as well, what the power level is for each battery in a module, etc.

Brilliant.

 

[Adam S]

Now that this issue has been brought to the attention to the right folks at Red and Reduser I'm sure it will be addressed. Thanks for listening.

 

[Neil Horner]

Looks Awesome!

 

[David Battistella]

Tim,

Is that the module adaptor on there too?

Is that the final design/thickness of the module adaptor?

David

 

[Nate Clapp]

I too vote for some sort of fold flat gizmo that I can pop up and turn with my fingers. Keep underneath is fine as long as I can get my fingers in there. And I would like to second that while the module goes on pretty fast under the right conditions, I am not ready to call a non tool-less bit you have to access underneath as "AC friendly". Not to say it is unfriendly but "AC friendly" is a high bar. Because sometimes we are on a dark muddy slope in the rain with a flashlight in our mouth with the whole crew looking at you and the AD saying "how much longer?"

If the answer is "done, ready" as you hand it to the DP, THAT is AC friendly.

Again like the design based on pictures, but I reserve judgement on just how many stars I would give till I actually do a day with one. One other speculation- the XL batteries seem interesting to me as juggling four little batteries on the camera seems slightly fiddly to me. I get the modularity of they are the same batteries as the handle, and that is great. But in my kit I imagine I would get 4-5 small batteries as "swing" batteries that could be either handle batts or module batts, but if we are living on the module give me 2 XL batts with more juice in them and I'll take 4-6 of those to do the heavy lifting of powering all day.
Do the/ will the XL batts need a separate charger than the 4 banger?

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Now that this issue has been brought to the attention to the right folks at Red and Reduser I'm sure it will be addressed. Thanks for listening.

Adam. I don't think they heard a word of what you said. It was tinged with elitism, dismissiveness and BIG shot itis. Get over yourself. I am giving LOTS of constructive feedback regarding the modules... via email... see, its a PROTO TYPE... and if I post issues on here, trolls and people like you will suddenly make this an ISSUE. when its not. This thing IS awesome and worthy of praise.

If you understood the locking mechanism, (which needs to be REPEATEDLY tightened and loosened and over and over)_ NONE of your suggestions are realistic, without compromising the strength and security of the modules.
its is VERY CLEAR that RED weighed all of these issues carefully, and there is always a compromise in design.

Can you again please tell me what situation requires you to take modules off and on.. especially battery modules? On the side of a hill in the rain? Big foot hunting? You are being overly dramatic and ALL OF US CHANGE from handheld to crane to tripod. If you PREP properly
this will be a non-issue and if you do need to field change. its EASY> an idiot could do it. Jim has often said. "If you think you can do better, please feel free to design your own modular camera system" - your attitude blows dude and so does mine now responding to your exaggerated observations. Its a quarter turn of an allen key. I'd prefer a folding latch, but an allen key is no big deal as evidenced in the video. Side will NOT work. Top Will not work. with the latch system they selected.

there is no fatal flaw with the locking mechanism on the bottom... as you are implying ... especially if its the best way to secure the modules so the pins dont come disconnected and you lose your connectivity to the brain. Ikea furniture uses SIDE locking mechanisms and we all know how long that stuff lasts and stays tight. The tongue and groove takes all the pressure. HAS to be on top.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I too vote for some sort of fold flat gizmo that I can pop up and turn with my fingers. Keep underneath is fine as long as I can get my fingers in there. And I would like to second that while the module goes on pretty fast under the right conditions, I am not ready to call a non tool-less bit you have to access underneath as "AC friendly". Not to say it is unfriendly but "AC friendly" is a high bar. Because sometimes we are on a dark muddy slope in the rain with a flashlight in our mouth with the whole crew looking at you and the AD saying "how much longer?"

If the answer is "done, ready" as you hand it to the DP, THAT is AC friendly.

Again like the design based on pictures, but I reserve judgement on just how many stars I would give till I actually do a day with one. One other speculation- the XL batteries seem interesting to me as juggling four little batteries on the camera seems slightly fiddly to me. I get the modularity of they are the same batteries as the handle, and that is great. But in my kit I imagine I would get 4-5 small batteries as "swing" batteries that could be either handle batts or module batts, but if we are living on the module give me 2 XL batts with more juice in them and I'll take 4-6 of those to do the heavy lifting of powering all day.
Do the/ will the XL batts need a separate charger than the 4 banger?

and if you scouted the location and were prepping the camera, prior to embarking, then tossing a $5 headlamp LED in your kit would be advisable, and much more sanitary. Then you literally take out the Hex tool and make a 1/4 turn. It took me longer to type this\ with my laptop balancing on the arm of my couch than it takes to secure the module... just saying, the knee jerk reaction is. "whoa, its on the bottom" then you start analyzing the design and think to yourself... "yup, thats the only place tp put it unless the users want this module to cost $5000 with some untested unproven locking mechanism that has 3x more moving parts than the one they selected.

Whats more important? to me, its having a ROCK SOLID connection between the pins that can never get rattled, even if i bump the modules hard.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Precisely. its minimal weight and very strong Tom and the last thing anyone wants is a module to get bumped and tweak the brain's back or wall structure. its not like you need them between modules. just the one on the back of the brain.

Thinking alound here but it would be cool to have a 'pro' module adpater...
Like a micro module with the same feature the adapter has but with just an extra EVF port or maybe also a lemo or DTap plug to power a small aks Not sure it is at all possible but would be uber nice if it was... No lost space/weight loss and extra ports without adding a pro IO module for tiny configs.

 

[Adam S]

Preping has nothing to do with not having to remove modules in the field. We are going to have to add/remove modules in the field on a regular basis and I've already listed those situations... It's not that I would be removing the battery module all the time, I'm assuming that all the other modules have this same locking design and those are the ones that are more likely to be added/removed on a more regular basis. Even though it is very likely that going on/off Steadicam is when we would add/remove the battery module from the camera and power off the the sled.

Moving the placement of the turning point to the sides won't change the stability/strength of the mechanism. You're not understanding what I'm talking about when I say put the bolt on the sides. I don't mean in the middle of the module, I mean on the bottom on the side. It would maintain the strength of the current mechanism, because everything would stay the same, except where you tighten the thing. It would not add any cost, maybe $.50 for a different bolt or an additional gear. I can actually see how this might simplify the mechanism and remove the need for one of the pieces in there.

I don't see why Red wouldn't want to modify this, especially if it would improve the ease of use of their camera design.