DSMC2. Unified.

[Rich Miro]

Dumb

Dumb

Unified body- smart. The incredible price drop........

That I don’t think was a smart move. Would have been better to offer loyal customers that price then maybe a small price drop in cameras. RED must be hurting in some way.

Having to pay $5k for a sensor that was $5k less than the one you purchased is dumb.

Epic-w to Gemini should be a $2k update max. Or maybe labor and some but 5k is hefty.

This whole thing price drop really rubs me the wrong way. RED has established itself as a prestigious camera maker, only to devalue their own product? Could you imagine Apple dropping their prices by that percentage? Or how about Mercedes bens? Ferrari?


From a valuation POV this price drop doesn’t make sense even if I’m the one benefiting from the change.

 

[Luca Volpe]

Luca, I have no clue what camera you have : )

If you mean you have a EPIC-W that will be updated to DSMC2, then you get an additional year of standard warranty?

Yes Brent I have a Red Epic W and my warranty should expire 2019 , so as I read there will be 2 extra years? Thanks

 

[Yogesh Khubchandani]

I have a S-W monochrome. When I upgrade to DSMC2 Gemini, would I get back a DSMC2 Gemini Monochrome?

 

[David Coughlan]

From a valuation POV this price drop doesn’t make sense

They addressed this in the opening post. It doesn't make sense. But beyond that I think it fundamentally comes down to a question of "are we selling tools, or are we selling investments" and I think it's pretty clear where they come out on that. Totally sucks for everyone who took the different approach, but... these are tools to make art, not bonds, so past a certain point you can't expect too much, right? And Instead of assuming they're hurting, I think it's equally possible that they're flush yet humble enough to admit they've made mistakes and can deliver more if they get leaner.

On the Apple issue (cars aren't the best comparison because the fluctuation in tech pricing is worlds away from automobiles), I definitely can't imagine them slashing prices like this. But I also can't imagine them making decisions that are genuinely motivated by a desire to give users better equipment at lower prices instead of appeasing shareholders. Two sides to every coin. And if inflated prices are the only thing responsible for a tech company's prestige, well, they won't be around for too long... World moves too fast for that.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Dreaming of Gemini...

Thanks Jarred

 

[AndreasOberg]

Just a small question, maybe it has been posted somewhere. Since we have a Weapon Helium can you have the logos exchanged so instead of Weapon it says DSCM2?
Not so much for ourselves, but mostly to avoid confusing if anyone is renting or if you come to a shoot.
/Andreas

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

I have a S-W monochrome. When I upgrade to DSMC2 Gemini, would I get back a DSMC2 Gemini Monochrome?

As of today Gemini exists in RED's lineup only as a color sensor...
I think right now the only black and white camera brain available from RED is the DSMC2 Helium Monochrome ... and it looks like a MONSTRO Mono is in the works to bring some 8K FF VV BW awesomeness.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Brent, can I get a job at RED? You guys are awesome. Thanks for the continuous information!

Not joking either :biggrin:

I’ve fantasized about this many times myself

 

[Andreas F. Scheucher]

So everybody is happy, with the exeption of the CF People. We spent a lot.. CF Epic, Upgrade to Weapon CF, Upgrade to Helium or purchasing a new Weapon Helium CF. Some People did a Financing of the product and now - almost 40% lost.
I am now 9 years part of the RED camera owner and RED changed my "filming-life" totally. Therefor I am really grateful. And also the new product clearance is a good step, but.. as I said, it would be fine to find a better solution for the CF People.

 

[Hikari Homma]

What I think about is who paid 30K for EPIC-W.
Paid 30K already and have to pay 5k more then total cost for GEMINI gonna be 35K which priced 20K as a new one now.
S-W owner can get GEMINI much more cheaper if you think about total cost.

So I'd like to suggest more logical way for upgrade.
Must be fair for everybody otherwise it will come gambling to buy RED camera.

I'm not confused or complain about my situation at all.
But I'm afraid of purchase RED camera in the future if RED can't have logical thinking. I don't like gambling.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Bobby, please read the support page: https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001330348

Is it possbile to upgrade Weapon MG to the unified body AND keep the original Dragon Sensor? What would be the cost (without buying the Gemini/Helium/Monstro sensor)?

Thanks

Pat

PS: I love Dragon's 6k at S35mm, and if you do a S35 Monstro I'll upgrade it immediatly) ;-)
PS 2: Ok so should I reevaluate my insurance policy for Weapon MG to (19'500 - 6'950) = 12'550 instead of 29'500?

 

[Austin Reeves]

So everybody is happy, with the exeption of the CF People. We spent a lot.. CF Epic, Upgrade to Weapon CF, Upgrade to Helium or purchasing a new Weapon Helium CF. Some People did a Financing of the product and now - almost 40% lost.
I am now 9 years part of the RED camera owner and RED changed my "filming-life" totally. Therefor I am really grateful. And also the new product clearance is a good step, but.. as I said, it would be fine to find a better solution for the CF People.

Exactly this. I love RED. I really do. I was so happy to get my new Helium S35. The fact that this was done talking about how great it was for everyone and the people that just dumped $70k for a package weren’t meantioned at all makes my stomach churn. I’m happy for those that can now afford it, but doing so on the backs of people who just invested in your high end product and clipping their knees out from under them doesn’t sit well. We are the ones out there singing the praises of RED and pushing the gear, still trying to open the eyes to people who have had bad experiences from early legacy models. Before I could at least argue a premium rental rate, but by cutting the price don’t think our rental rates will plummet as well.

I just wish the people that bought in weren’t forgotten and in-fact punished both in the purchase, but also in the upgrade path. :sad:

 

[scott devitte]

As of today Gemini exists in RED's lineup only as a color sensor...
I think right now the only black and white camera brain available from RED is the DSMC2 Helium Monochrome ... and it looks like a MONSTRO Mono is in the works to bring some 8K FF VV BW awesomeness.

I would love to have a 8k FF VV Monochrome for my Monstro(s), I have been debating getting a Helium Monochrome sensor now with the lens swap, but would much rather a FF. Any more info?

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Having to pay $5k for a sensor that was $5k less than the one you purchased is dumb.

Something that I think might be getting lost is the fact that Red will be receiving a camera, taking it apart, upgrading internal elements of the camera, swapping out the sensor, doing another QC, and then shipping it back to you for the price of $5k. I can't imagine that with the parts, shipping, and man-hours that they're making out with a huge margin (but I could be wrong). It's like those difficult conversations I've had with clients about edits "but now that we only want 2 x 30s spots instead of 2 x 60s spots, why doesn't it cost half as much?" It likely will cost more because of the change in deliverable requiring more time to be put in. If you buy it off the shelf new, it is at it's "correct" price, but labor and parts go into making the swap which cost $$$.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Brent, just to clarify, with the current simplification, is sensor swap (GEMINI < > HELIUM < > MONSTRO) a standard part of RED offerings now, or is still going to be time framed as usual?

 

[Jeremy Scott]

To those that are saying RED is good to the loyal customers. The only people that most benefit from this ordeal is first time RED owners.

Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 35k
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 12,500 - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 25k
Those that bought the Gemini at 24,500 - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 24,500
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 10k - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 22,500

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Gemini for $19,500


Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for 35k

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for $24,500

Not going to cover Montsro - You guys already know.

 

[Ash Worth]

Unified body- smart. The incredible price drop........

That I don’t think was a smart move. Would have been better to offer loyal customers that price then maybe a small price drop in cameras. RED must be hurting in some way.

Having to pay $5k for a sensor that was $5k less than the one you purchased is dumb.

Epic-w to Gemini should be a $2k update max. Or maybe labor and some but 5k is hefty.

This whole thing price drop really rubs me the wrong way. RED has established itself as a prestigious camera maker, only to devalue their own product? Could you imagine Apple dropping their prices by that percentage? Or how about Mercedes bens? Ferrari?


From a valuation POV this price drop doesn’t make sense even if I’m the one benefiting from the change.

So bizzare quotes like these. Buy a new camera it loses value the moment you open box. The good thing is it makes the money back every day you book it. No business values newly bought equipment a year later as new. If you are a working professional then these numbers are kind of meaningless... and if you are upset over 3K then it's time to get out of owning cameras.

5K to extend the potential relevance of your camera is a gift.

Again I can't believe the whining and complaining.

 

[Joachim Hoge]

To those that are saying RED is good to the loyal customers. The only people that most benefit from this ordeal is first time RED owners.

Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 35k
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 12,500 - Get's a DSMC2 Gemini for 25k
Those that bought the Gemini at 24,500 - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 24,500
Those that bought the Scarlet-W at 10k - get the DSMC2 Gemini for 22,500

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Gemini for $19,500


Those that bought the Epic-W at 30k - Get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for 35k

Those that never owned a RED - get the DSMC2 Helium 8k for $24,500

Not going to cover Montsro - You guys already know.

i

I hope these people actually used their cameras to make money when they bought them;-)
Unless you just bought the camera, you should have had quite a bit of time to recoup some of your money. People seem to forget that part

 

[Joachim Hoge]

One thing I haven’t seen addressed is the sensor read out on weapon vs Epic-W. My Epic shows some jello effect ( but I’ve never had a problem with it)
Is the weapon better in this regard?

 

[Matt stambaugh]

i

I hope these people actually used their cameras to make money when they bought them;-)
Unless you just bought the camera, you should have had quite a bit of time to recoup some of your money. People seem to forget that part

This! I bought my Scarlet-W at the old pricing (10k) and it being valued at 7k in a trade in doesn't necessarily make me made. I would love more but eh, I just wish it evened out to the 19500, but I get it! Just deciding if I should go for the Gemini or the new Epic!