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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dragon Upgrade Update - Epic-X upgrades and Dragon Epic-M orders begin to ship

Gavin Greenwalt said:
The $5k price difference between a brand new Scarlet Dragon and the upgrade price + the brand new Scarlets shipping sooner seems like a no-brainer to just sell your Scarlet for $3k and buy a new Scarlet Dragon.
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Sure... or I could just pay another $9525 and get an epic dragon and a Red mouse pad.
 
I think what you guys should try to keep in mind is that by even offering an upgrade path, Red is doing you a huge favor, the likes of which you are just not going to find with any other manufacturer. If they need to prioritize new camera sales to keep the company profitable and to finance manufacturing lines, I don't feel we should begrudge them that.

I have an Epic-M and eventually ordered the Dragon upgrade. I have no idea when my brain will be called in and I don't really care. I paid $50k for this camera and it's so damn good that I'm not even sure I need the Dragon sensor, but I'm grateful that Red is offering me such an inexpensive way to keep my technology current.

And before you get all wound up about waiting for your Dragon, you might want to ask yourself if you're even ready to handle the post-production workflow. I just put 13 grand into a new monster PC and added another 48 TB of storage. I'd never consider shooting 6k without having a proper pipeline in place first.
 
Chris-

Great advice. How's that custom PC you put together? I remember you had a thread about it but haven't seen anything posted there. Will you purchase a Rocket-X?


Christopher Barrett said:
I think what you guys should try to keep in mind is that by even offering an upgrade path, Red is doing you a huge favor, the likes of which you are just not going to find with any other manufacturer. If they need to prioritize new camera sales to keep the company profitable and to finance manufacturing lines, I don't feel we should begrudge them that.

I have an Epic-M and eventually ordered the Dragon upgrade. I have no idea when my brain will be called in and I don't really care. I paid $50k for this camera and it's so damn good that I'm not even sure I need the Dragon sensor, but I'm grateful that Red is offering me such an inexpensive way to keep my technology current.

And before you get all wound up about waiting for your Dragon, you might want to ask yourself if you're even ready to handle the post-production workflow. I just put 13 grand into a new monster PC and added another 48 TB of storage. I'd never consider shooting 6k without having a proper pipeline in place first.
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Option: Sell the old -- buy new and enjoy a fresh year of warranty.

In 2013: Trading my one year old Scarlet to a new Epic gave me an extra year of warranty.

Check how much extra Warranty cost otherwise, and include this in the individual situation.

None of the other video-cameras I owned since 1985 gave me an upgrade path, but RED does. Love it.
 
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I hear the frustrations, trust me I'm half excited, half nervous since for a lot of us 9500.00 is a huge financial burden. That said I don't begrudge RED for selling cameras to new customers while upgrades come in and take longer since it's essentially double the workflow for an upgrade.

I'm not crazy about being charged for a fan upgrade I don't want/need, nor paying shipping when after 14 months of delays I'm having to eat that cost as well.

BUT...I do give RED credit for an upgrade path, which is more than what other companies have offered in the past.
 
I guess we just have to get used to the new RED world in which upgrades are not no-brainers, but sort of OK options for people who don't like dealing with selling their old cameras. Unfortunately I'd rather just sell my Scarlet since that gives me an "upgrade path" to any other camera on the market, not just a Scarlet Dragon that I have the option to get after new customers get their orders. I guess RED is learning the same thing most technology companies eventually learn about hardware upgrades, they are not as profitable or efficient as just churning out new products, and in the end upgrades aren't really much more convenient for the customer if at all unless the company devotes to upgrades as their number one priority, which is tough to do when it is so much less efficient and controllable than just building new models.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how all of these stages work. I think I'm in a green group that says shipping, but have not gotten an email.
 
It is certainly for many of us a lot of money to move around. Same here. It is not simple to keep going and expand the kit the same time. Even I think we paid more for the celluloid alone in the past -- per project, than I pay now for the camera itself -- each year. I feel it is better now. But yes, it is always a question of ones own perspective.

However, having a Sony EX1 here as well, no update option, and the money I would get for it -- now -- wouldn't even convince me to get into the trouble of selling it. Which is true since ~30 years by now for my cams, so I never sold one. I'm done with such concepts -- if possible. :o) ... and enjoy (hopefully soon) Dragon quality.
 
Isaac Marchionna said:
I hear the frustrations, trust me I'm half excited, half nervous since for a lot of us 9500.00 is a huge financial burden. That said I don't begrudge RED for selling cameras to new customers while upgrades come in and take longer since it's essentially double the workflow for an upgrade.

I'm not crazy about being charged for a fan upgrade I don't want/need, nor paying shipping when after 14 months of delays I'm having to eat that cost as well.

BUT...I do give RED credit for an upgrade path, which is more than what other companies have offered in the past.
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It is my understanding the fan upgrade was added at no charge... probably because the Dragon sensor needs the extra fast cooling capacity.
 
Elsie N said:
It is my understanding the fan upgrade was added at no charge... probably because the Dragon sensor needs the extra fast cooling capacity.
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It would have been nice to get a discount if we already have both 2.0 fans, or one or the other. I'm trying to keep my 1.0 bottom fan since the 2.0 bottom fan's sound isn't the most pleasing.
 
Dennis Guskov said:
I don't want the engraving, can I skip that?
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We have a process from step A to step Z. Trying to do variations in the process slows the whole thing down. You can certainly request it of your rep, but there is no guarantee we can accommodate.
 
Marcos Montenegro said:
Chris-

Great advice. How's that custom PC you put together? I remember you had a thread about it but haven't seen anything posted there. Will you purchase a Rocket-X?
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Wicked fast, Man. And I'm sort of getting used to Windows. Can't decide yet on RR-X. I got some sample Dragon footy and the Beast chewed right through it.
 
Christopher Barrett said:
...

And before you get all wound up about waiting for your Dragon, you might want to ask yourself if you're even ready to handle the post-production workflow. I just put 13 grand into a new monster PC and added another 48 TB of storage. I'd never consider shooting 6k without having a proper pipeline in place first.
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And this is what makes me glad I am only planning on a trade-in to Epic-X first. I get a new camera, with a new warranty, with improved performance, and a further upgrade path to Dragon; all for $9500. And my current infrastructure will currently handle it. If/when I jump to Dragon, I think a lot of other money will have to be spent. Ouch. :frown:
 
you can always shoot 5k dragon and make use of the better sensor and colour. that's what most of us will probably be doing.
 
scott william said:
you can always shoot 5k dragon and make use of the better sensor and colour. that's what most of us will probably be doing.
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That's tough when epic users have been used to the fov of the 5k MX sensor. The same fov on dragon is 5.5K.
 
With economies of scale, Red is saying that parts and labor for upgrading a Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon = parts and labor of cranking out a brand new Epic X

They also tell us that parts and labor for building a brand new Scarlet Dragon is less than parts and labor for building an Epic X.

When I look deeper into the gift horse's mouth, I begin questioning why Red would even allow a Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon upgrade path to begin with if the plan all along was to allow people to buy into a better spot in line ahead of folks that have been waiting a year. It's just a confusing proposition altogether.

It would be cool if Red figured out a magical efficiency in the upgrade process that could shave..oh..let's say about $3K off the cost of Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon upgrades. Would definitely take the sting out of being 2nd to last to the Dragon party.
 
its great to hear things are ramping up.

How quickly would you get an upgraded sensor if you placed your upgrade order today (19th May)?
 
Hard to tell, Rory. Remember, upgrades are both RED-dependent and customer-dependent. We can blast a customer to say they are eligible, but depending on their camera's availability, the date we get it is variable.
 
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