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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON-or-HELIUM

Kemalettin Sert said:
why panavision chose VV instead of Helium then? (i know both have different sizes)
Myself downloaded almost every helium sample footage thats being shared on reduser and all i can say shit is way sharper than Dragon sensor we all see that, however DR and pixel color is looks weaker than Dragon.Helium pixels under low light way greenish and dirty imho.
Click to expand...

Can't comment about highlights until Helium juice from Graeme is ready but pretty sure your worries about shadow performance are doomed.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Thanks for sharing your files Erich.

My RCX test.




RCX settings
As you can see the Xyla WB is "off" 4100k -19tint. WB performed on both clips @ midgray
DEB was used on the Dragon not on the Helium.
Dragon uses STD OLPF
The curve is slightly different due to different hilight clipping points. (1.1 stop less highlights in the Helium for same iso base, now shadows looks the same but has more resolution in it (better denoise possibility?))




Top Helium bottom Dragon+DEB (no denoise in RCX)

Pat
Click to expand...



meant this one by saying Helium's noise is greenish
 
Helium's color science was not yet finished during that test. There could be some more improovements in the future. Let's wait until RED releases a new Helium colorscience (it's what I'll do before taking any decision to go the Helium road).

Pat

PS: I love my Dragon! ;-)
 
We should wait till the science is released, THE SCIENCE!
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
meant this one by saying Helium's noise is greenish
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, but ya like everyones saying, can't wait for the science. Again not sure if its going to be a miracle cure, or the missing link. Either way, very happy with Helium look overall, and have no reservations about purchasing right now.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
meant this one by saying Helium's noise is greenish
Click to expand...

Helium shadows (not just noise) are purplish or yellowish or bluish or correct, depending on what the image transformation does to its base data.

You are looking at two different sensors processed the same way. That doesn't work and can only mislead you.

Have no fear.
 
It's interesting to see how some folks rave about the huge step up in color, when I don't see any of that on any of the tests and HeliumColor ain't out yet.... I think it's great that the color stayed good considering the small pixel pitch, but I don't see a huge leap that some folks are claiming... Low light is a step up, if u need that... I think Helium can be the low light cam next to a Dragon on a production... Good combo, color looks similar...

RED are running now 2 product lines ergo 2 sensors simultaneously... Great options.

shooting 8K in 9:1 is a waste.
 
helium raw files

helium raw files

any chance mark that you can release the RAW helium files for us to confirm your findings?
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Helium shadows (not just noise) are purplish or yellowish or bluish or correct, depending on what the image transformation does to its base data.

You are looking at two different sensors processed the same way. That doesn't work and can only mislead you.

Have no fear.
Click to expand...

So everybody did it wrong? Whats the right way then.

Even Red dont shoot 3200 ISO.Look at the helium sample right there.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
So everybody did it wrong?
Click to expand...

Not sure. I don't spend much time observing everybody so cannot give an adequate answer.
I don't see the co-relation of this with the Red video you linked.

Kemalettin Sert said:
Whats the right way then.
Click to expand...

29l1tau.jpg





:)
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
So everybody did it wrong? Whats the right way then.[/video]

Even Red dont shoot 3200 ISO.Look at the helium sample right there.
Click to expand...

Kamalettin.. yes... every thing you have said you have been wrong. Just wrong. Just like in the other thread.

Im going to use your own words... you are just really bad at guessing.
 
No one should be judging Helium until the new color science comes out, period.

We did a whole test at our studio two weeks ago, and I've chosen to wait to even look at the test...until the new color science comes out.

It's the only way to really see what this sensor is capable of.

What's undeniable for now is the lower noise floor and cleaner shadows.

And I've spoken to people in the field who are actually USING Helium, and so far they are LOVING it.

So these real world examples are worth considering - and these are power users.

I have no doubt Helium will be amazing - and Jarred's comparison of Helium vs Dragon as a "film stock" choice I think is the greatest analogy going.


HELIUM - BETTER SENSOR, BUT TIGHTER CROPS AT HIGH SPEED

Because in truth, even with Helium's advantages (noise, resolution, and a promise of better color) its pixel size also gives it some disadvantages vs Dragon - namely the crops for highspeed are much tighter FOV's:

4K
Shooting 4K 120fps on Dragon would give you the FOV of 6K on Helium (APS-C).
However shooting 4K 120fps on Helium would you give you FOV of 3K on Dragon (Barely larger than S16)

3K
Shooting 3K 150fps on Dragon would give you FOV of 4K on Helium
Whereas shooting 3K 150fps on Helium would give you 2K FOV on Dragon

2K
Finally, shooting 2K 240fps on Dragon would give you 3K FOV on Helium
While shooting 2K 240fps on Helium would give you FOV equivalent to a GoPro.


Everything has a trade off. Which makes me assume RED are looking into a "new" Dragon sensor down the road, with that same pixel size...

Only time will tell...on this fabulous ride RED is taking is on!!
 
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Jarred Land said:
Kamalettin.. yes... every thing you have said you have been wrong. Just wrong. Just like in the other thread.

Im going to use your own words... you are just really bad at guessing.
Click to expand...
Chief i just dont know which path is more suitable for me helium or dragon.Since i don't have Helium camera right now its better to wait people like Phil and other do a proper test which shows true power of helium.
This is like two different best flavours you are offering and im little bit impatient about it.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Chief i just dont know which path is more suitable for me helium or dragon.Since i don't have Helium camera right now its better to wait people like Phil and other do a proper test which shows true power of helium.
This is like two different best flavours you are offering and im little bit impatient about it.
Click to expand...

Yes my friend, if you are unsure then of course just wait till you see what happens after we release the new color science. That is the most logical thing to do.
 
I have the distinct feeling that once Helium color is released, we will all kiss the Dragon sensor bye bye for good. Helium looks to be an entirely different kind of a beast.
 
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