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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DRAGON-or-HELIUM

Kemalettin,

It is only pot-luck that Helium R3Ds look Ok with Dragon Colour science.

We will be able to compare images (including DR) only after the H Colour Science is available on the 11th Oct.

AJ
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Really? Do you believe that color science make it 1-2 stop difference?
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It seems that it can. This is with Dragon at least:

phfx_REDcolorTests_RWGLog3G10Rec709_04.jpg
 
I can only speculate.

+) With smaller pixels it far far harder to capture colour rather than noise.
(Less area = less photons to catch. So less colour 'density' in the same sort of noise)
It would appear that the colour accuracy of Helium = higher vs Dragon (this is some sort of miracle)

+) The second part is the ADC. It is possible to perform several pixel 'reads' within one frame. Doubling the number of reads in the same time period would half the sensor exposure, or double the light requirement before the ADC clipped.
I would speculate that if quantised reads were used, it would easier to increase the DR than it would to make more colour accurate smaller pixels.

=====

For the Dragon, I would have Guessed that at some signal level, RGB would start clipping. At that point I would expect the CS would tend toward white light.

For Helium ... it CAN see more into the darkness, and so I would Guess that RED have increased the numerical values in the R3D of Helium data .. let's say by 1.5 stops. Viewed with existing CS, this might Clamp the highlights. With Helium colour science, it may now be 'safe' to convert much brighter images.

Lots of speculation here - just trying to illustrate an example in which Dragon CS may 'hold back' Helium R3Ds.

AJ
 
was it Red Weapon CF or Red Epic Dragon?
Cause my CF Weapon looks almost the same in Low Light.
 
I tried downloading the dropbox but none are importing into fcpx and the files seem really small, if anyone knows please pm me]

steve
 
fcpx and Adobe Premiere still have to update their SDKs to support Helium 8k. Resolve currently supports it, so you can open them in there.
 
Adam Montville said:
fcpx and Adobe Premiere still have to update their SDKs to support Helium 8k. Resolve currently supports it, so you can open them in there.
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just because its 8k right? If shot in 6K there should be no issue like any other r3d I am assuming
 
sergio arguello said:
not trying to be an drag but from this i am too believe that at 2000asa i see less exposure in the background? and i see more exposure at 1600asa on dragon meanwhile lighting on subjects face looks about the same in exposure?
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now the iso changed on this pic thats floating on another threadwhats that all about
 

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you have to make a choice, it's just personal.
Who wants more resolution and those who want more DR, etc. etc ..


For now my choice is to stay on DRagon, indeed I wish Jarred still would give us the possibility of going to upgrade to Dragon VIsta Vision.
 
why panavision chose VV instead of Helium then? (i know both have different sizes)
Myself downloaded almost every helium sample footage thats being shared on reduser and all i can say shit is way sharper than Dragon sensor we all see that, however DR and pixel color is looks weaker than Dragon.Helium pixels under low light way greenish and dirty imho.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
why panavision chose VV instead of Helium then? (i know both have different sizes)
Myself downloaded almost every helium sample footage thats being shared on reduser and all i can say shit is way sharper than Dragon sensor we all see that, however DR and pixel color is looks weaker than Dragon.Helium pixels under low light way greenish and dirty imho.
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Format size, resolution, and how well it works with their glass inventory.

And who's to say there won't be DXL Helium bodies in the future? The DXL was announced and worked on before Helium.

Also, nearly everybody is testing DR wrong in relationship to Dragon and Helium so far. Helium's recommended base ISO will be considered "higher" because the sensor's Native ISO is considerably higher.

Don't know or see what you're feeling regarding Pixel Color as of yet. In fact I think that statement is going to be wrong at the end of the day due to what Helium pixels actually are.

Can't wait to get back in town in a few days to fire off a hell of a lot of tests to show the differences and strengths both represent.
 
Phil Holland said:
Also, nearly everybody is testing DR wrong in relationship to Dragon and Helium so far. Helium's recommended base ISO will be considered "higher" because the sensor's Native ISO is considerably higher.
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Yeah, I'm interested in a proper test. I think everyone's been testing Dragon and Helium at 800 iso side by side, if I'm right shouldn't it be Dragon at 800 iso and Helium at 3200 or 2000 iso for the same amount DR?

My only worry with Helium Epic are the frame rates, with higher data rates, what is the max fps at 8k and how much of the sensor do you have to crop to match the Dragon's over-crank chart.
 
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