Bomb EVF Shipping

[Tim Whitcomb]

I never heard that; what are your sources? Never seen that info on REDUSER either. If you make that kind of a statement, you should provide more than innuendo.

Please list references for your claim.

First of all, I didn't make the statement, so back off on the hostile tone.

I am repeating what I have heard and read at least a dozen times in the past year and a half... Was posted a long time ago on here during Jim's original quote on the MELTDOWN. The threads don't go back that far. But I remember Jim being shocked by how many suppliers went bust... and for the record, it MAY have been a supplier of a key component, not the actual sub manufacturer... but the delay was originally caused by a supplier going out of business. They now have a new company making them in Germany (if you read this whole thread, instead of demanding I do it for you, it was mentioned several times.)

peace

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Not sure what manual you are referencing??

Its 1/3 the weight and size, which is an engineering feat. The original was a beast. Definitely is higher resolution than the original. Has a built in heater now for cold weather and, to my knowledge, its the highest quality EVF on the planet... so how is that a retrograde? Everything they did has been reported as an improvement and if you must have the rotary knob, well there are always 1-2 first Gen EVF's for sale every month down in the classifieds.

I'm curious where you got this FUD?

I'm referencing the RED ONE manual, Tim (p24-25); no FUD here, and I'd thank you if you were less free with your accusations...


"The RED EVF comprises the following components:

A. High-resolution color display: Provides a 1280 pixel x 848-pixel resolution progressive scan color im- age equivalent to viewing a 17” reference color monitor from a distance of approximately 4 ft.


"The BOMB EVF comprises the following components:"

A. High-resolution color display: Provides a 1280 pixel x 784-pixel resolution progressive scan color im- age equivalent to viewing a 17” reference color monitor from a distance of approximately 3’ 3” (1 m).

NOTE: The BOMB EVF can display either the upper 784 lines or lower 784 rows of the 1280 x 848 pixel viewfinder output. To toggle between these two options, simultaneously press both User Key 3 and User Key 4."


So it definitely *isn't* higher resolution than the original; it's lower.

As I said, I'm sure RED had good reasons. And I'm sure the Bomb is the dog's bollocks; lots of other very good features, a superior product in many ways. But why not simply make the Bomb 1280 x 848, the same as the original EVF, instead of this kludge? I don't understand it, and I'd like to. I don't own either; it's curiosity, that's all.

Mike

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I'm referencing the RED ONE manual, Tim (p24-25); no FUD here, and I'd thank you if you were less free with your accusations...


"The RED EVF comprises the following components:

A. High-resolution color display: Provides a 1280 pixel x 848-pixel resolution progressive scan color im- age equivalent to viewing a 17” reference color monitor from a distance of approximately 4 ft.


"The BOMB EVF comprises the following components:"

A. High-resolution color display: Provides a 1280 pixel x 784-pixel resolution progressive scan color im- age equivalent to viewing a 17” reference color monitor from a distance of approximately 3’ 3” (1 m).

NOTE: The BOMB EVF can display either the upper 784 lines or lower 784 rows of the 1280 x 848 pixel viewfinder output. To toggle between these two options, simultaneously press both User Key 3 and User Key 4."


So it definitely *isn't* higher resolution than the original.

As I said, I'm sure RED had good reasons. And I'm sure the Bomb is the dog's bollocks; lots of other very very features, a superior product in many ways. But why not simply make the Bomb 1280 x 848, the same as the original EVF, instead of this kludge? I don't understand it, and I'd like to. I don't own either; it's curiosity, that's all.

Mike

Mike, im not attacking you brother... but your post is indeed creating... Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt = FUD. That is, you are talking about SPECS that do not equate to image quality differences.. All I can tell you is I have looked into both and the Bomb has a far superior image. HOW they do that with (purportedly) lower resolution is beyond me. But again, since you are using specs from a manual... and ignoring REAL WORLD opinions... it respectfully, sounds like you are trying to stir the pot and create FUD. make sense?

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Mike, im not attacking you brother... but your post is indeed creating... Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt = FUD. That is, you are talking about SPECS that do not equate to image quality differences.. All I can tell you is I have looked into both and the Bomb has a far superior image. HOW they do that with (purportedly) lower resolution is beyond me. But again, since you are using specs from a manual... and ignoring REAL WORLD opinions... it respectfully, sounds like you are trying to stir the pot and create FUD. make sense?

Sorry Tim, I can't accept that. Perhaps there's a semantic difference here, but to me (with an IT background) FUD is something that's propagated maliciously, for commercially advantageous ends; the term originated ~40 years ago, when IBM salesmen resorted to dark hints, lies, and other assorted dirty tricks to discourage customers from defecting to the competition. Being accused of that is something I can't take lying down.

I'm a RED owner with a simple straightforward question: the original EVF was 1280 x 848, the Bomb is 1280 x 768. That seems an odd design decision with unfortunate consequences, but knowing RED there must have been a good reason for it. I had hoped someone here might know what that good reason was, to satisfy my curiosity. That's ALL. If you're reading any other motive into my question you're flat wrong!

I've no axe to grind, I haven't bought either and I probably won't, the LCD is a better choice for a lot of what I do. I'm just curious.

Mike

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Well I'm glad you are not being malicious.. but my POINT is that its threads like these that TROLLS read and then use to spread FUD.

You started by saying you haven't used either... and that's a shame because, again, all I can tell you is I owned an EVF and the BOMB image is far superior.. cleaner, sharper, better colors, and the improved form factor is far more desirable.

I will let Stuart from RED answer the SPEC questions. Maybe its as simple as a typo?

 

[Brian Ferguson]

First of all, I didn't make the statement, so back off on the hostile tone.

I am repeating what I have heard and read at least a dozen times in the past year and a half... Was posted a long time ago on here during Jim's original quote on the MELTDOWN. The threads don't go back that far. But I remember Jim being shocked by how many suppliers went bust... and for the record, it MAY have been a supplier of a key component, not the actual sub manufacturer... but the delay was originally caused by a supplier going out of business. They now have a new company making them in Germany (if you read this whole thread, instead of demanding I do it for you, it was mentioned several times.)

peace

There is no Hostile tone, you are inferring that. I remember Jim talking about Scarlet being affected by supplier issues. Not any RED One components.

I actually know you are wrong. I am not hostile at all. You need to make a difference between the original EVF which you mentioned and the Bomb EVF, which is/was talked about being made in Germany. I don't know anything about the Bomb EVF , but you were talking about the Original EVF. Now you are mixing the info. Your memory is faulty.

If you don't want people calling you out on BS don't confuse the products. I worked with RED since NAB 2006 to July 2010 as a consultant. It just is frustrating to see a post that could get posted as some sort of fact, that I will face on another crew and have to discredit.

 

[Jake Bastian]

I never heard that; what are your sources? Never seen that info on REDUSER either. If you make that kind of a statement, you should provide more than innuendo.

Please list references for your claim.

Here's what was said:
http://indie2zero.com/2009/02/04/la...uly-bad-redray-and-epic-scarlet-looking-good/
but I agree with Tim.

(if you read this whole thread, instead of demanding I do it for you, it was mentioned several times.)
peace

I'm a RED owner with a simple straightforward question: the original EVF was 1280 x 848, the Bomb is 1280 x 768. That seems an odd design decision with unfortunate consequences, but knowing RED there must have been a good reason for it. I had hoped someone here might know what that good reason was, to satisfy my curiosity. That's ALL. If you're reading any other motive into my question you're flat wrong!
Mike

The original EVF was a giant and one of the major requests was to make it smaller so it was more "pro" - I agree with this choice by the way the old EVF was ridiculously big. Combine that with the heater they threw in to allow it to operate in colder temperatures and you get a screen with 100 lines less resolution. If you look at the image in the manual, you'll see that this does not hinder your ability to actually see what you are filming. It only means you have to choose between seeing how your camera is configured, and seeing everything in your menu. I have the menu memorized, so I'm planning on leaving mine showing the top half of the screen so I can glance at the settings from time to time and make sure they are correct.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

There is no Hostile tone, you are inferring that. I remember Jim talking about Scarlet being affected by supplier issues. Not any RED One components.

I actually know you are wrong. I am not hostile at all. You need to make a difference between the original EVF which you mentioned and the Bomb EVF, which is/was talked about being made in Germany. I don't know anything about the Bomb EVF , but you were talking about the Original EVF. Now you are mixing the info. Your memory is faulty.

If you don't want people calling you out on BS don't confuse the products. I worked with RED since NAB 2006 to July 2010 as a consultant. It just is frustrating to see a post that could get posted as some sort of fact, that I will face on another crew and have to discredit.

Hi Brian, the last thing I want to do is spread BS. I specifically remember RED (Jim and Jarred and Brent and Stuart) saying that a key component to the EVF supplier went bust. I cant find the threads because this site doesnt go back that far. It was in Jim's announcement that it would be "years" for the economy to recover.

I have posted this (fact?) several times in defense of all the complaining and neither Brent or Jim or Stuart ever corrected me... people keep attacking RED for not pumping these out fast enough... Im trying to help defend the attacks.. that is my CONTEXT.

If that is indeed incorrect info, then I find it strange nobody from RED ever corrected me because you are the first to do so.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Well I'm glad you are not being malicious.. but my POINT is that its threads like these that TROLLS read and then use to spread FUD.

You started by saying you haven't used either... and that's a shame because, again, all I can tell you is I owned an EVF and the BOMB image is far superior.. cleaner, sharper, better colors, and the improved form factor is far more desirable.

I will let Stuart from RED answer the SPEC questions. Maybe its as simple as a typo?

Fair enough. I'm sure it isn't a typo, due to the two-button press to get upper/lower 768 lines.

Mike

I think Jon is correct. Earlier there was a fissure, with a lava flow moving towards the camera. Now, the fissure appears to have propagated through the lava flow. Certainly this is already a longer event than the sub 24 hours of episode 54.

This fits with a larger deflation; less than 30 microradians at the summit for episode 54 vs. over 40 microradians and increasing for the current episode.

Lava is now visible again at the bottom of the Halema'uma'u pit, which suggests to me that pressure in the system may be increasing again.

 

[Niko Pueringer]

Mike, im not attacking you brother... but your post is indeed creating... Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt = FUD. That is, you are talking about SPECS that do not equate to image quality differences.. All I can tell you is I have looked into both and the Bomb has a far superior image. HOW they do that with (purportedly) lower resolution is beyond me. But again, since you are using specs from a manual... and ignoring REAL WORLD opinions... it respectfully, sounds like you are trying to stir the pot and create FUD. make sense?

"Real world" opinions = subjective. Facts from a manual = objective.

If you're trying to call out someone for spreading FUD, and they are simply referencing facts from the manual, you are pushing the pro-RED thing way too hard.

 

[Brian Ferguson]

Here's what was said:
http://indie2zero.com/2009/02/04/la...uly-bad-redray-and-epic-scarlet-looking-good/
but I agree with Tim.


I have no problem with a critique of the original EVF, but no place in that post you posted was Jim saying the original EVF vendor went bankrupt. Which was my only point.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

If you don't want people calling you out on BS don't confuse the products.

Your memory is faulty.

by the way Brian, these are BOTH hostile statements. Have a good night, this thread is laced with negativity and im going to stop visiting it. Clearly, some people on here (not you) just seem to live to bitch about things... like saying "RED would rather make watches than focus on EVF's". That is the kind of BS that needs more attention than my possibly mistaking that a supplier to the original EVF went bust. maybe my memory is fucked, but I swear brent or stuart or somebody confirmed that "suppliers" were holding up the original BEFORE they announced the BOMB. Maybe it was the Bomb suppliers, all I know is the bitching is counter productive and I was attempting to help alleviate it. BIG MISTAKE.

peace

 

[Jake Bastian]

More recent reference to manufacturing delays:

J.Burger.. the EVF is much more difficult to manufacture than you would think. We took our old EVF, shrunk it in half and made it better. There is no conspiracy.. no shenanigans.. just plain old manufacturing delays. When you are dealing with precision cast parts and very high tolerance optical elements, if something isn't perfect it takes a month to retool.. try again and see if the changes worked and yield goes up. If its an electrical or something that can affect mechanical grounding, need to redo FCC testing to make sure it still passes. Rinse and Repeat. Rinse and Repeat.

And I will say it again.. It has been shipping since August.. just in very small numbers.

 

[Brian Ferguson]

by the way Brian, this is a hostile statement. Have a good night, this thread is laced with negativity and im going to stop visiting it. Clearly, some people on here (not you) just seem to live to bitch about things... like saying RED would rather make watches than focus on EVF's. That is the kind of BS that needs more attention than my possibly mistaking that a supplier to the original EVF went bust.

peace

The only point I would make is RED and other companies make decisions about their products that change the availability of accessories.

If you say you "know" that someone went bankrupt, and nobody challenged that, that is a problem. You need solid proof for that kind of statement. I haven't been involved with the RED since last Summer but that fact would be something I remember. Making a statement of a legal fact, like bankrupt, should not be made lightly. It may be true but I never heard of it and I hate internet mythology taking over for actual facts.

 

[Peter Matthes]

FWIW ... this is what I can add.

I attended the Teradek event at OffHollywood on November 23rd of last year. Principally, I was there to check out the Teradek cube as a possible solution for an upcoming job. Once I had established that the cube was not exactly the right fit, I grabbed a beer and wandered around a bit.

I noticed that Mark had the Bomb EVF set up on one of his Red One bodies, and just a few feet away the old EVF was set up on another body. Both cameras had mid-range Master Primes mounted on them. I must have spent fifteen minutes walking back and forth between the two set-ups.

Regardless of the printed specs, I can honestly say that the Bomb EVF looked a little bit brighter, slightly sharper and it had less of a tunnel effect. Strangely the heater was on, even though it was not needed in the warm room.

Beyond that ... let's face it. Even if all things were the same, the Bomb's small form factor is much better suited for a camera (Epic/Scarlet) that can strip down to the bare necessities when it's called for.

Since that night ... in mid January ... a build update was posted by Brent. This new Red One build was meant to optimize some of the Bomb EVF features.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=707125&postcount=1

Perhaps Mark, Gibby or Brook can elaborate on what goodies were added in that new build.

Like many of you out there, I cannot wait to finally own a Bomb EVF, and I placed my order within mere minutes of it hitting the Red Store last July. However, good things come to those that wait, and in the immortal words of Tom Petty ... "The Waiting is the Hardest Part". :001_smile:

 

[Curran Giddens]

The original EVF was made by Accuscene, a company in Scotland making the best EVF's in the world. Jim bought the company soon after they started making the original EVF. I never read anything about a supplier going bankrupt. Maybe my memory is mush...

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

"Real world" opinions = subjective. Facts from a manual = objective.

If you're trying to call out someone for spreading FUD, and they are simply referencing facts from the manual, you are pushing the pro-RED thing way too hard.

I'll gladly be accused of "taking the PRO Red thing way too far", on REDUSER and especially on this 90% negative thread.

My point, that is lost, was that Fireman Mike's concerns over 100 lines of resolution (when he never looked thru either EVF) no matter how objectively accurate, could easily be "construed as NEGATIVE FUD..." in otherwords, I was hoping he would be more diplomatic with his "concerns" over specs.

I wish I had seen Jarred's post earlier about the complicated process of the EVF manufacture process as I would have just kept posting that every time somebody bitches about the delivery schedule/order of the BOMB.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I'll gladly be accused of "taking the PRO Red thing way too far", on REDUSER and especially on this 90% negative thread.

My point, that is lost, was that Fireman Mike's concerns over 100 lines of resolution (when he never looked thru either EVF) no matter how objectively accurate, could easily be "construed as NEGATIVE FUD..." in otherwords, I was hoping he would be more diplomatic with his "concerns" over specs.

Fireman Mike didn't see how it was a matter for 'diplomacy'. It's a straightforward question. It's not a matter of image quality; I happily accept the verdict that the new display looks better. The significance of the loss of 100 lines of resolution is that it screws up the data display; there's now this kludge where you have to hit two buttons to tell the system whether you want to see the upper data display or the lower - you can't see both.

Why not just make the new VF the same res as the old one? It seems dumb not to; it's a retrograde step. If that's a question that's so sensitive it needs to be asked 'diplomatically' then frankly I think some people need to grow a thicker skin.

Alternatively of course, tweak the firmware to display the data correctly in the lower resolution(1) Bomb. With either an autodetect for which VF is installed, or a manual setup parameter. Far better than the kludgy upper/lower lines thing; that's just nasty and messy and bad and wrong (to my IT/hacker informed background).

If I don't want to see data, I hit the switch and get rid of it all, use just the frame guides display.

I really didn't expect to get into this as a debate; all I hoped was that someone would point me at an old thread (I've looked but been unable to find) which explained this; then it would have been 'oh, ok, fine, now I get it'. I don't know this stuff because I'm a relative newbie to RED. I ask a straightforward question and get accused of FUD. What, you think I work for Sony? Sheesh.

(1) Lower resolution but better looking, don't get your knickers in a twist!

Mike

 

[Nook Kim]

I want a Bomb EVF

 

[martinnoweck]

two days ago i dreamed my fed ex man had the bomb evf already on his truck, but he had to hold it back because of import tax reasons ;-)

best wishes,
martin