Fixed Lens With Kit

[Peter Weisberg]

first time poster here

So the more i have read about the fixed lens with the kit the more it is starting to sound like the scarlet 1.0. Is the fixed lens kit going to still going to fit in with the modular system or is it going to have all of its features built into the body.

I personally would like it if the fixed lens scarlet kit had everything built into the body and was almost like a standalone camera from the rest of the modular cameras. Though it would be nice if you could add on other modular things to it as well, i don't know how practical that is. but i personally would perfer to have a fixed kit that was completely independent and could perform by itself then having the kit rely on further modularity.

I was also curious if anyone knows exactly what is going to be coming with the kit or when we can expect to know such information.

Will it have LCD and a Viewfinder? Will it have XLR inputs (at least 2) and an on board microphone? And will the features be built into the body with buttons or is it going to take the digital menu approach.

These have been my biggest concerns about it so far. I'm interested in doing some live one take music recordings with my camera so i need something that can be easily handheld and that can have external microphones as well as an on board microphone on it.

 

[Steven Swigart]

No one knows for sure. But according to RED's website you will be able to buy the brain with the fixed lens, or a 'complete kit', which one would assume it would be 'complete'. http://www.red.com/epic_scarlet/

RED has recently stated that they will be adding additional features to all the models, so earlier speculation on the Scarlet is now already obsolete. Keep checking around here for updates.

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

The fixed Scarlet will have modular capabilities, but it remains to be seen whether the IO unit...etc. is built into the brain or is a seperate module.

 

[Juhan Malmstein]

It won't have XLR inputs, but rather a 3.5mm microphone jack built into the brain, all of the 750$ "kit" will be modular (but why is that a bad thing, it will be a standalone working camera, you can just replace the parts). It'll probably come with some sort of screen but probably not a viwefinder(remember the 750$ kit has to include some sort of CF module, controls, battery and a screen). IF you need to set up a monitor or XLR mics you should probably get the IO module with the appropriate inputs and outputs. Need longer battery life? get the battery module. ETC.

The fixed scarlet will be the most glorious transforming camera ever - going from a small point and shoot to a cinema style monster rig.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

well ya, except the whole point of the fixed lens scarlet is for those of us on a tight budget. I want the scarlet 1.0, I could handle paying $4000 for it, but then to have to buy an I/O module and this and that and this. it adds up very quickly. As cool and exciting as I think the whole modular thing is, I still feel as though the original proposed Scarlet 1.0 was the best camera for me, and definitely at the best price. Then again i guess jim doesn't say Prices and Schedules will change for no reason. But still, when I hear complete kit, It would be nice if it had everything. like what is the point of a 3.5mm microphone jack? I'd almost rather have nothing at all than be forced to resort to using that. It just seems silly to have a camera that is shooting 3k having a 3.5 mm microphone jack. I would perfer spending a little bit more on a complete kit, and having it be "complete". If the complete kit is just going to come with some extra features that are severely downgraded that we will just need to buy their higher quality modular counterparts then what is the point?

in summation, I would perfer if the complete kit were just that, A complete kit that, even if it meant the complete kit costing a bit more money.

Also just to clarify, the fixed lens Scarlet has autofocus/ manual focus correct?

 

[Matthew Blight]

well ya, except the whole point of the fixed lens scarlet is for those of us on a tight budget. I want the scarlet 1.0, I could handle paying $4000 for it, but then to have to buy an I/O module and this and that and this. it adds up very quickly. As cool and exciting as I think the whole modular thing is, I still feel as though the original proposed Scarlet 1.0 was the best camera for me, and definitely at the best price. Then again i guess jim doesn't say Prices and Schedules will change for no reason. But still, when I hear complete kit, It would be nice if it had everything. like what is the point of a 3.5mm microphone jack? I'd almost rather have nothing at all than be forced to resort to using that. It just seems silly to have a camera that is shooting 3k having a 3.5 mm microphone jack. I would perfer spending a little bit more on a complete kit, and having it be "complete". If the complete kit is just going to come with some extra features that are severely downgraded that we will just need to buy their higher quality modular counterparts then what is the point?

in summation, I would perfer if the complete kit were just that, A complete kit that, even if it meant the complete kit costing a bit more money.

Also just to clarify, the fixed lens Scarlet has autofocus/ manual focus correct?

From what we've been told the Fixed Scarlet will have both autofocus and manual via some new flavour of fly-by-wire system - not true manual control, but not all autofocus.

More to your point about "who wants a 3.5mm jack when shooting 3K" - I would say that if your shooting a project that warrants the full 3K capabilities of the camera, you should probably be recording your sound off-camera anyway. Even if you were to go with a R1 which has mini-XLR built in, off camera recording is usually recommended.

You could always just get an XLR-3.5mm adaptor, or buy the I/O module. :beer:

Matthew

 

[Peter Weisberg]

the problem with external audio is that means i would need a sound guy. For instance if i want to shoot a video like THIS I would want an on board microphone that could focus in on whoever the camera was looking at. But i would also want some other mics on the other musicians so that they can still be heard off camera.

As of right now I don't really have a crew and would like to shoot videos like this by myself.

at the same time though, i wanted a camera that i could later use for independent cine productions as well, so that flexibility is really important to me.

also, what does Fly by the wire mean? It isn't going to have manual focus? Or it is but its going to be digital? hmm i don't know if i like the sound of that. I liked that the fixed had the autofocus for shoots like the link above, but I would certainly want to have full manual focus as well.

 

[Matthew Blight]

I see what you mean about having a sound guy. I suppose you could get an XLR-3.5 cable, this would at least allow you to some decent quality mics regardless of the input.

Fly-by-wire essentially means that when you turn the focus ring, you are not physically turning the lens, instead the rotation of the focus ring activates an internal motor which focuses the lens for you - it's an approximation of manual control but not technically manual control. You can find these on most consumer/prosumer cameras ie: Canon XL's and HVX etc. etc.

Again, as the camera has not been released and no final specs have been set, at this point we're all just talking out of our arses. Best to wait until the final release of the camera before making any final decision.

Matthew

 

[Eric S.]

More to your point about "who wants a 3.5mm jack when shooting 3K" - I would say that if your shooting a project that warrants the full 3K capabilities of the camera, you should probably be recording your sound off-camera anyway. Even if you were to go with a R1 which has mini-XLR built in, off camera recording is usually recommended.

Obviously having dedicated sound technicians and hardware will usually yield the best results, but I think it's a little unfair to equate shooting 3k (which would almost always be delivered at 1080p, I'd imagine) with only big productions. The fact is that the prosumer market has become accustomed to XLR ports and on-board audio. There are plenty of prosumer users who built their audio capabilities around affordable XLR mics.

With 3.5mm adapters, you have to worry about power. With a separate recording interface, you have to worry about the extra sync time in post, not to mention extra manpower on set.

The fixed Scarlet occupies a weird space, doesn't it? With the modular strategy, worries about who needs XLR ports are pretty simple. If you're prosumer / run-and-gun, just buy the IO module for your audio needs. It's just the notion of a "complete kit" which might be a little thorny, since the Scarlet is supposed to appeal to such a wide market of users.

Ultimately, I'm sure Jim and Co. will try to satisfy as many users as possible.

Eric

 

[Peter Weisberg]

ohh ok, no thats totally cool. I was thinking something totally different when you said that. alright, that is good to know about the focus, because that had me bummed out for a second there.

and ya i could get a 3.5 mm adapter but i guess what i'm upset about is, no one who uses this camera is ever going to use that 3.5 mm input, unless they like you said go get an adapter for it. Having a 3.5 mm mic input on this camera is similar playing a really good cello with a cheap bow (not the greatest analogy, but you can understand where i'm coming from). I mean if thats what i'm stuck working with, i'll have no choice but to get the I/O module. But if i do that, then what is the point of the kit in the first place?

Also if the kit is modular why isn't it offered with any of the other cameras and assuming i decided to upgrade to a better brain, would any of it work on the new brain? If not, then the fact that it's modular doesn't really help unless i decide i'd rather upgrade features and not use something.

So i guess my plea to red is this. If you are going to make the kit, make it right, even if it costs us a little bit more!

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

RED has recently stated that they will be adding additional features to all the models, so earlier speculation on the Scarlet is now already obsolete. Keep checking around here for updates.

I must have missed this announcement. I read that Red was making changes, but didn't know they were new features. I just assumed that the changes were improvements to features/specs.

 

[Matthew Blight]

I don't remember any discussion of Scarlet even having a 3.5mm jack built in, come to think of it.

Matthew

 

[Peter Weisberg]

well that explains a lot then. But i guess it all just comes back down to waiting to find out. They are releasing new info again at the end of april correct?

 

[Chris Davis]

Shoulder Mount

Shoulder Mount

Anyone know if it will be possible to shoulder mount the Scarlet 2/3" fixed lens? From the pictures it seems it would be difficult to hold. If the brain itself is 4 lbs., how heavy do you think this camera will be with the lens, battery, data storage, and other necessities?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Steven Swigart]

I must have missed this announcement. I read that Red was making changes, but didn't know they were new features. I just assumed that the changes were improvements to features/specs.

Here is the original post: "Things are changing again?

Due to discoveries, competition, boredom and obsessive/compulsive disorders... Scarlet and EPIC have changed again.

Just when you thought you have settled in to your normal routine and begun to think you know what RED is doing... we have gone and changed the playing field one more time. Development is a combination of what we can do, what we think we can do, what our competitors can do, what our competitors think we will do and what we just figured out what we really can do. Which is it? All of the above.

Rejoice... this is the RED way.

Jim"

Take it as you will. But we do not know what the 'changes' are. Basically, I'm trying to say we don't know anything for sure yet, and is silly to speculate too much. And changes in specs or features are 'new features' to me. Change does not mean 'exact same or old', it means 'new', even if it's only updating.

 

[Dale Anthony Smith]

Gotta have XLR audio inputs... even the DVX100 had them... with phantom power... with the option to assign either channel to the built in mic or one of the XLR jacks.
Regardless of WHAT the resolution of the picture is... Hi Qulity SOUND is equally important. I would expect to see XLR inputs on any "pro" camera. On a "complete" kit... I wouldn't expect to have to buy the equivalent of the IO module. And on top of that... I would expect to be able to see what I am shooting well enough to focus on it... the LCD panel is not really useful in bright daylight... Again with the DVX100 comparison... it has a flip out LCD as well as a nice big viewfinder with a rubber cup to keep light out AND an adjustment for correcting viewfinder focus for those of us with not so young eyes.
Just my two cents
Best Regards
Dale

 

[Alexander Waldman]

IMO, Red would definitely not put a 3.5mm jack instead of an XLR or two; it's just not a professional connector and, as Red has stated many times before, this is a professional camera.

I don't think you'll have anything to worry about when it comes to the "complete kit." According to what I've read, it should have everything necessary to perform all of the functions out of the box, including audio recording.:thumbsup:

 

[Juhan Malmstein]

I don't understand. What are you guys imagining they can give in the 750$kit?
The EVF now costs ~3000$. LCD's also around that mark. Battery is 450$. Their 16gb CF card is 495$ <-- that's a CF card, costing 2/3 of what the whole fixed "kit" is going to be - you won't get XLR inputs or a 1080p kickass viewfinder.

Also about audio - I did a quick search and found this post by Jim

You are reading it wrong. The Fixed has audio. The others have audio. (You were only talking about the fixed in your post). Advanced audio in the modules. Hope that makes it more clear.

Jim

it's from the thread over at http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=383850&highlight=3.5mm#post383850

Now have you seen XLR ports on any of the brains? Probably not. I'm just saying that don't get your expectations up - there is a limit to what they can build for 750$ and I'm going to be happy to have anything they will provide me with. Be it three AAA batteries taped around the brain as a battery or whatever.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

Originally Posted by Juan Baranchuk View Post
Jim, please make the Scarlet Fixed with XLR (or mini XLR) inputs for audio on the body (not as a separate module). If you can´t do that give us miniplug stereo input and separate gain controls of audio on left and right channels (like Sony FX1). XLR should be cool!!!!
Have you decided that?

3.5mm mini-plugs are on the brain.. and yes to being separate... very separate. :wink:

So I don't know if this means it will have xlrs or not because from what i can make of jarred's post is that yes it will have the 3.5 mm plugins on the brain, but he goes on to say it will be seperate, which may indicate that the 3.5 mm brain plugins MAY just be a standard feature for all brains, or at very least the fixed lens scarlet, and that the XLR inputs will come as a seperate module, and i can only assume this is in relation to the full kit for the fixed lens scarlet.

i hope it comes with the xlrs

EDIT:

Ok so I sifted through that huge thread some more and I found some interesting information.

Joshua Brown View Post
Jim, thanks so much for continuing to feed us candy even when we've already spoiled our dinners. I really appreciate it.

I still have questions about the audio of the fixed lens though. I know your making an I/O module, but for the fixed lens complete kit, will that complete kit include a mic of sorts? You know... to complete the whole audio/visual experience that film is? (Also helps for quick ENG style shooting).

Thanks so much for all your openness!

-Josh

"Fixed" can use all the modules...

Jim

I feel as though this means the fixed lens will not have a built in microphone, but there is a post a bit later where jim says that the fixed lens scarlet with the kit will be able to record audio straight out of the box with everything in there (whether that is referring to microphones as well is uncertain). So an onbaord microphone is a maybe, but i would really hope the fixed lens has it.

The fixed lens brain ONLY will have the 3.5 mm mic plugins, and they said plugins so that means there are at least two, built into the brain. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get XLR's is the I/O module. Now I wasn't too thrilled with the idea of buying an I/O module on top of the almost $4k scarlet and all the other accessories i'm bound to be buying for it. But while looking for info on the fixed lens, i saw some speculation about the I/O module. Apparently a few people have noticed an antenna coming out of it. Some speculate that this antenna could allow the I/O module to be detatched from the camera itself. If this is true, than that more than warrents the purchase of the I/O module, for myself at least. To be able to hook the I/O module to a belt or just keep the ammount of cables going into the camera at a minimum while not having to worry about going back later to sync up the audio is brilliant. I really hope this speculation is true.

But ya, that is about all that I have been able to really discern about the fixed lens scarlet.

Ohh and that the fixed lens will be able to work with all the modular stuff, which is nice because i could definitely see myself owning an s35 at some point, and if i buy some accessories with the fixed lens, it would be nice to transfer those over to an S35 down the road.

 

[Jeff Hitchcock]

So I don't know if this means it will have xlrs or not because from what i can make of jarred's post is that yes it will have the 3.5 mm plugins on the brain, but he goes on to say it will be seperate, which may indicate that the 3.5 mm brain plugins MAY just be a standard feature for all brains, or at very least the fixed lens scarlet, and that the XLR inputs will come as a seperate module, and i can only assume this is in relation to the full kit for the fixed lens scarlet.

I think what he meant by this statement is that the fixed brain will have two 3.5mm audio inputs, each with it's own individual gain control. Though his little winking face indicates that they probably have something else up their sleeves (time shall tell).