Birger Lens Mount Reservations

[Peter Majtan]

Didn't they guys got it for the Burning Man? That infamous installation video...

 

[Paris Remillard]

I am no longer going to make any forward looking statements....

Then you should probably offer to refund the remaining balance that many of us paid a month ago when our mounts were supposed to ship that week (Aug 5-13th) until you are ready to let us know when our mounts will actually be shipping. I understand you not wanting to post shipping dates that you can't keep. But you have already done so several times and you already collected our money with the agreement and understanding that they would be shipping. If you can't give us an ETD on the mounts, then they are not currently shipping. We should pay for the product in full only when it is actually shipping.

 

[Mark B.]

Then you should probably offer to refund the remaining balance that many of us paid a month ago when our mounts were supposed to ship that week (Aug 5-13th) until you are ready to let us know when our mounts will actually be shipping. I understand you not wanting to post shipping dates that you can't keep. But you have already done so several times and you already collected our money with the agreement and understanding that they would be shipping. If you can't give us an ETD on the mounts, then they are not currently shipping. We should pay for the product in full only when it is actually shipping.

Or... maybe Birger could keep the current deposits but promise to give the reservation holders a little something extra to compensate for the months of delays... like maybe throw in an extra rail mount knob for free. Or some extra accessory cables or something.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Or... maybe Birger could keep the current deposits but promise to give the reservation holders a little something extra to compensate for the months of delays... like maybe throw in an extra rail mount knob for free. Or some extra accessory cables or something.

Not a bad thought. Good to read Erik's update and know they are working out bugs. Still looking forward to the mount but keep shooting the Nikon in the meantime.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Maybe we should all just thank our lucky stars that we decided to go with THE still camera lens mount. The Birger is THE mount. Adjustable back focus, electronic iris, Bluetooth remote focus control and a long list of amazing future options. This is a very sophisticated device. I looked inside and from all the miniturized circuitry I saw inside I think Erik is using reverse engineered alien technology. One of my mounts was also one of the ones acting strangely. I shipped it back to Erik and he has fixed the problem. So hold on the mounts are real and they are coming.

 

[Frank Weeks]

So hold on the mounts are real and they are coming.

sweet music

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

15 of these are on RED cameras.

Actually, if some of these users would chime in on this thread, it would go a long way towards reassuring order holders and take a huge burden off Erik -- 15 mounts in the field and barely a peep from the users, I can't think of a single breakthrough product that has generated less useful feedback, usually users are falling all over themselves to help each other understand new gear....why isn't this happening with such a long-awaited and revolutionary tool?

kind of makes you miss Arin Crumley's dopey sense of humor, doesn't it?

 

[Harmonica]

We are here, not particularly answering the phone, and working on getting things out the door. Hopefully in popping my head up for a minute I won't get shot at...

I am no longer going to make any forward looking statements. I am going to tell you that we have all our resources, and then some, targetted on getting these mounts out the door. Approximately 80 of the new mounts are in the field, and 15 of these are on RED cameras.

We have had a couple of units in the field that were behaving erratically. I have had a chance to evaluate three of the five units that had issues. It is a thermal problem, the front of the RED camera gets really hot. This exacerbated a manufacturing issue, and not a design issue with the mounts, that is now solved.

I will read through the thread when I have a chance. This is simply a proactive post, as a few people that I have spoken to on the phone said that the natives were getting restless...

Proactive??? If you do read through the past week, you just might decide to change your wording.

Well, here we go again. I just can't find the strength to get out of this abusive relationship. Hopefully an amazing lens mount will come of it.

 

[David Nardini]

Approximately 80 of the new mounts are in the field, and 15 of these are on RED cameras.

Oh ... so the 'new' mount has a wider community ! and by the look of things, they have theirs first :huh:

We have had a couple of units in the field that were behaving erratically. I have had a chance to evaluate three of the five units that had issues.

Strange sentence ... or is it just me :huh:

Good news that it's been resolved BUT it would be polite to inform folk who have paid in full when the mounts will be shipping. Some of us have settled the card payment and will look rather stupid if we have to get back to them in a few weeks to dispute the transaction ...

 

[Paolo Tinari]

I don't see Red Ones suddenly not being used (or bought) after the release of Epic. Both cameras cater to different use(r)s.[/URL]

Thats not my point. Trading in my red for the epic will make the mount useless to me is. Selling it used is of course the option but an undesired one

I would argue that the shorter life-span has more to do with the continued delay of the Birger actually shipping.[/URL]

Yes, that was my only point. Dont argue.

(A while ago I heard a podcast that argued that Bill Gates was a great businessman because he understood that there was no point in trying to make the perfect product, if that meant it would hit the market too late.)



Birger being a small shop, I do not think they have the financial muscle to pull this off. Nor do they have a moral obligation to do so.

RED is extremely kind in offering the trade-in, but you cannot expect anyone to follow suit. Do you expect ET to trade in their base plates? Sachtler to trade in their tripods?

No.

Red came with the promise of making obsolescence obsolete. And they keep that promise with their awesome trade-in deal.

Third party suppliers came with the promise of making tools for your Red One camera. And they kept (or, in the case of Birger, and fingers crossed: are about to keep) that promise. At a very good price point. To ask for more is overdoing it...[/URL]

Sachtler and universal baseplates are not comparable to a hypervertical tool i'm going to buy at a very good price point but will dismiss sooner that i expected.
But you are right Birger being a small shop. If not we would be already working with the system

 

[Joel Kaye]

Trading in my red for the epic will make the mount useless to me is.

I'm hoping EPIC shares the same mount with RED so the current adapters will be able to be used on EPIC. If not, it might keep me from upgrading to EPIC.

 

[Gary Stone]

i decided to cancel my birger order and go with the nikon mount because the birger WILL at some point become obsolete. either by me upgrading to epic (or downgrading to scarlet <----joke

i would like to move up to cine glass someday. if i buy a conventional cine follow focus system ect., i can use it as i go forward with cine glass. the birger will become a paperweight. i'd rather have the $500 nikon mount be a paperweight than the $2000 birger system be one.

let's not even discuss how horrendous customer service will probably be, given how it's been so far.

 

[Jesse Rosten]

Restless Native chiming in here. Birger billed my credit card on August 7th. I still have no mount and no idea when/if one will arrive. Not cool. I've been really patient up to this point and waited happily while Birger refined their product.

But now, Birger has my money, and I have no mount. I think that means I'm entitled to an opinion Don't get me wrong. I'm really excited for Birger and think they'll have a great product. But, seriously, don't charge someone until you're ready to ship. And if you can't ship for some reason, offer a refund. Or at least an email to let your customers (actually, I'm more like an investor at this point) know what is up.

Rant, over. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

-Jesse

 

[Clint Johnson]

On the bright side, with all of the delays in the mount itself I'm sure that the development of the knobs and bluetooth controller have caught up to it.

Right?

Stop laughing dammit, a man has a right to dream doesn't he?

 

[lonny dill]

Birger Software to pull focus fashion week NYC

Birger Software to pull focus fashion week NYC

We just returned from a successful film shoot at the MET in NYC for fashion week. We filmed for four days using Red with the Birger mount. We used the following Canon lenses:
17-55
10-22
28-300
We used the Birger software and a SDI monitor to pull focus during the shoot while the camera operator framed each shot. It wasn't very realistic to use zoom by hand with the Canon lenses while recording. But, Zacuto makes a clamp on gear that can be placed on non-geared lenses. We are contemplating if a smooth zoom might be possible using a Zacuto clamp on gear and a drive motor. If so, I wonder if Birger has considered evolving to have a gear drive option built into Birger mount. Ideally with an output right off of the Birger mount to feed a gear drive motor. When you compare the cost of a geared cine style lens with focus, iris, zoom motors and a controller, Birger could still come in at a lower price point and may be able to perform the same task.

 

[ericyoung]

Maybe we should all just thank our lucky stars that we decided to go with THE still camera lens mount. The Birger is THE mount. Adjustable back focus, electronic iris, Bluetooth remote focus control and a long list of amazing future options. This is a very sophisticated device. I looked inside and from all the miniturized circuitry I saw inside I think Erik is using reverse engineered alien technology. One of my mounts was also one of the ones acting strangely. I shipped it back to Erik and he has fixed the problem. So hold on the mounts are real and they are coming.

Care to elaborate on strangely?

 

[Michael Hastings]

I'm hoping EPIC shares the same mount with RED so the current adapters will be able to be used on EPIC. If not, it might keep me from upgrading to EPIC.

I haven't chimed in in a while because didn't seem to be productive but this brings up a useful bit of info. Even if it doesn't directly fit epic, the EOS bayonet and circuit board ARE removable and could be put on some other mount - this is really the smart mount and the part that is typically $900 and has been for many years.

I think people need to understand that the big holdup was when the RED mount change basically drove Erik to make an adjustable mount for the Birger. He could have just made a simple "block" intermediate piece and required us all to use shims to adjust collimation, but he tried to make it similar to RED in terms of making a shimless adjustable collimation setup. Then he went further by adding buttons to allow adjusting iris at the mount/camera without the need for a separate knob - another thing that wasn't in the original version as sold last November.

Once you actually get your mount you will see that the collimation adjuster and the incorporated buttons are some very slick design and precision machining (and quite expensive - I can tell you - since I not only have my own CNC machine but have sourced similar parts many times over the past 20 years).

Remember that Birger took many orders at Thanksgiving 2007 - based on the camera at the time, before the change to an adjustable mount. I think once Erik got my camera in January and realized the major changes needed, if he had not already taken a couple hundred orders and deposits, he would have immediately raised the price and a further price increase would have been justified with the addition of the on mount iris control buttons. But with the constant pressure from all of us and some guilty feelings as it took longer and longer - he tried to hold it at the same price to compensate. Effectively a discount. A friend of mine used to always say: "no good deed goes unpunished" and this may be a little bit of one of those situations.

Anyway, back to epic - I believe at least half of the mount (the smart half) will be transferable - so unless RED does something to make it difficult - you should be able to upgrade.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

This mount is the answer to our dreams. It is IMO worth five times what Birger is charging. You would have to be independently wealthy or own a very large production company to afford all the cine lenses and over priced motorized remote focus controls that equal a twenty grand investment in Birger and Canon. Probably ten times the cost for the cine version. Let's get real. The mounts are soon to ship. We all want it, we know it is a revolution, we need to hold on. Erik has to check all the mounts to make sure this latest heat issue is not going to be a problem for anyone else. I agree Erik is a poor communicator, but he makes one hell of a great mount.

 

[Frank Weeks]

I certainly can't argue with that Mark.
As frustrating as it has been, I know it is better to be patient than jump off the train. The can't think of a lens solution that is even close to the birger mount in value. My pay grade demands patience. I know how beautiful a 50mm 1.2 L series lens is going to be (to mention just one).

Mark is right. We are so close. I'm still part of the faithful.

 

[MikeHedge]

Agreed. As you guys know, we arrived home after shooting out at Burning Man for 12 solid days of Birger/RED.

I'm here with Arin and Nathan going through a pretty hellish pre post drama. If anyone knows much about mixing frame rates frame sizes and codecs...

We shot with two RED cameras in 16x9 23.98P 4096x2304 as well as some 3K and some 2K 2048x1152. Then we had about 7 Canon TX1 720p 1280x720 30P cameras rolling. then we had 4 helmet cam style cameras rolling at 640X480 30P.

We are trying to have al the material from the whole shoot end up on a 1TB drive. We then will make copies of this media drive and give it to mulitple editors. All this media will be at quarter Res, so the file sizes will remain small and people can edit fast. The problem with FCP is rendering and mixed framrates. Any idea how to mix the 23.98P from RED with the 30P from the TX1 cameras? We plan on using cinema tools to slow down the 30P to 29.97. But it seems that then 29.97 is not playing nicely with the 23.98 from the RED. We have looked at various codecs. For our online full res stuff (2048x1152) we plan on using prores HQ. But for our quarter res stuff we are looking at photo JPEG at 512x288.

Anyone want to join our epic project?

Here's a production shot of Stephen Link

Mike Hedge producer
www.asthedustsettles.com