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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

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The pissing match has started, but the two cameras have such different appeals, it seems a little amusing.

Red : Independent owner / operators . Every indie film for the forseeable future. Epic penetrates the studio film markets with 5K. Lots of docs shot on Scarlet.

Arri : Rental houses / Episodic television where really fast turnaround is needed and 1080 is all the resolution you will ever need. And the price tag doesn't really matter.

The only area of contention is Arri's opinion that 2K is good enough for theatrical. With 2k DI's being common, perhaps. Got to think the whole chain will hit 4K, but by then Arri probably will come up with a 4K version.

For us indys, there' no contest. (and Red is cooler, which is very important indeed)
 
Scott Crawley said:
I can understand why you might be frustrated...
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Just for the record, I appreciate that Michael is here responding. That is commendable. I suspect that I have been one of the harsher Arri critics here, but I don't mean for Michael to take that personally. :)
 
Michael Bravin said:
By whom?

We feature an extended range of 13.5 stops.

HDR is not that.
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By Bill Lovell, Arri. When asked does the camera "implement HDR technology" in an interview, responds with "Yes."

http://www.freshdv.com/nab

Of course most of us know he's using the term loosely, but it's very easy to see why someone would get the impression of HDR on Alexa. Gotta train your people to say "no," if you intend the meaning to be "no."
 
James Brundige said:
The pissing match has started, but the two cameras have such different appeals, it seems a little amusing.

Red : Independent owner / operators . Every indie film for the forseeable future. Epic penetrates the studio film markets with 5K. Lots of docs shot on Scarlet.

Arri : Rental houses / Episodic television where really fast turnaround is needed and 1080 is all the resolution you will ever need. And the price tag doesn't really matter.

The only area of contention is Arri's opinion that 2K is good enough for theatrical. With 2k DI's being common, perhaps. Got to think the whole chain will hit 4K, but by then Arri probably will come up with a 4K version.
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The dynamic range issue will be very important for many top ASC-level guys.

Anyway, between Red and Arri, film's days are numbered.
 
Scott Crawley said:
The marketing notion that with the right camera anyone can make great images isn't just for consumers anymore. :-(

I think we've seen a lot of the same here in the U.S.. I can't tell you now many poorly shot interviews I've seen in the last few years.
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A timely comment.
About once a decade Australian TV interviews a US President. Last night ABC TV aired its 20 minute IV with Obama. A french style glass door behind the president wasn't secured and it continually flapped in the breeze, reflecting a light source as it did.
The camera op cut the top of the presidents head off trying to reframe to get rid of it.
Single soft light with no eye light so the presidents bushy eyebrows and dark eyes made him slightly lifeless. US flag in background was overlit.
3 high quality cameras didn't help the craft!
It wasn't a disaster by any means, but happily it wasn't in 4k!

Mike Brennan
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
rly? that price must be joke :blink:
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actually, that is really not that much of a joke.

when you think about it, the red one is not really 17,500, it is more like 35,000, by the time you put a viewfinder, recording options, power options, and make it a ergonomically comfortable (as much as a cement block can me made ergonomically comfortable).

it really should be compared more to the epic anyway, especially in form and function, not to the red one. and the price is actually 73,000 fully equipped and ready to shoot, less whatever discounts you are able to get, so this is a lot closer than you think.

still, thank you, Jannard for changing the game. this would not have happened without you. now, if sony would just wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Häakon said:
By Bill Lovell, Arri. When asked does the camera "implement HDR technology" in an interview, responds with "Yes."

http://www.freshdv.com/nab

Of course most of us know he's using the term loosely, but it's very easy to see why someone would get the impression of HDR on Alexa. Gotta train your people to say "no," if you intend the meaning to be "no."
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Bill Lovell didn't introduce the term into the conversation the interviewer did..
I'd say that he wanting to keep things moving and was being agreeably polite to the interviewer, because he said it is "difficult on the showroom floor" (to discuss complex matters).
He went on to give a detailed description of how they achieve their DR without going over the top or referencing HDR.
If it was a slip of the tongue then it was a rare one.

off topic...
Arri do employ glossy brochures and highly paid wordsmiths, (and now Michael Bravin!) but Bill Lovell has headed up Arri Media (digital) rentals in the UK and has danced a fine line in promoting and educating digital technology to film guys for a decade, from within a company that was until recently, VERY anti digital.

He deserves a medal for patience and diligence and he is one the guys, like others in similar positions worldwide, did great work in edging their own corner of the digital world forward in the early 2000's, against considerable opposition.



Mike Brennan
 
Jannard said:
EPIC is designed and engineered to electronic specs and mechanical quality that will stand heads up to the best in the industry for reliability and sturdiness.

Jim
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I can confirm this as I was also able to handle the Alexa today in the closing hours of NAB (best time to see new products BTW, no crowds and lots of personal attention. ) Anyway, I swear the Alexa uses the exact same material for the body as the Red One and EPIC body. The texture and everything was near identical, If you painted it black, and took the labels off... you'd think Red built the body.

You all might find it interesting that the heavily German accented gentleman I spoke to, whom works out of the UK, said:

"We have aggressively priced this Camera and the packages." Then smiled and added "We are well aware of our former pricing reputation" and we both laughed. So if nothing else, the industry should all thank RED for helping ARRI get more competitive pricing wise. He then also said if I ordered today that I "should not expect delivery before Oct or Nov" because...

We took more orders this week than our wildest projections"

So like it or not, as Blair said. Arri has earned their place. That all said, the camera just seemed more like an answer to the RED ONE form factor wise, just seemed so boring compared to the EPIC.BUT, as I mentioned last week. I truly believe that ARRI firmly targeted SONY's market , not RED's per se, especially with this particular iteration. I also found myself thinking, "Jim, may take flak now, but future proofing with 4K is looking smarter than ever". I also cringed when he said I "Ahh, you dont need to record RAW... I mean what are you shooting that you need more than Prores?" OUCH.

LENSES
The new zooms were HUGE and looked sharp, but I found it odd they chose a really deep DOF for showcasing the camera image and as a result, the scene on the screens on the floor looked really VIDEO-Y to me. However, some other stuff he showed me on his MAC, looked, well, almost exactly like RED footage. (I'd need to see it side by side to have an informed opinion)

Finally, for those of you misquoting the ALEXA as a $130K plus Camera. WRONG: A complete Package is around $77K... the packages priced over $100K included TWO beautiful ARRI Zooms in that price.
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
Finally, for those of you misquoting the ALEXA as a $130K plus Camera. WRONG: A complete Package is around $77K... the packages priced over $100K included TWO beautiful ARRI Zooms in that price.
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Which model? How many frames per second can it shoot?
 
My writings have got a high attention of so called ModDOGS here just because I'm not an ALEXA dude.

Terribly sorry!!!
 
Sanjin, we get it. You love Arri. You can't imagine life without them. But seriously dude, this is a Red forum, at least try to show some love.
 
Alex Kornreich said:
Sanjin, we get it. You love Arri. You can't imagine life without them. But seriously dude, this is a Red forum, at least try to show some love.
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In this case I'm pretty old fashioned.

I like more ARRI analog cameras, lighting, Zeiss & Fujinon cooperation with lenses and accessories than the new digital stuff.

It's about sort of 2K monopoly because for years they were scanning the film with 2K scanner and they think this is enough resolution.

According to that situation they have a huge army of followers and all RED1MX rentals will see this point or effect that staring this Summer.
 
Sanjin, Du nervst einfach nur noch! Lass es jetzt einfach mal gut sein. Die ganze Welt kennt jetzt Deine Meinung zur Genüge!

Musst Du eigentlich nicht auch mal arbeiten gehen, anstatt Tag und Nacht im reduser forum abzuhängen?
 
Matthias,

thanks to the tab browsing I'm not so often hanging here and working mostly on three computers simultaneously.

Also don't worry after my R1 get MX upgrade I'll be too busy to post on the forum for months.

They you'll get a long brake.
 
James Brundige said:
The only area of contention is Arri's opinion that 2K is good enough for theatrical. With 2k DI's being common, perhaps.
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James

This is hardly an opinion, this is a fact that nearly ALL theatrical movies produced in the world top out at 2K as well as DI, and television at 1080P.

We chose to build ALEXA as a tool to service this market with excellent image quality, color fidelity and simple straightforward workflow that fits neatly into the existing workflows for film and television.

Where is the contention?

I don't think we have ever claimed anything else.

If "future proofing" were an industry concern why aren't all films shot in 65mm Anamorphic with 8K DI?, seriously?

I think the opinion in contention is that 4K is the format of the near future, and while I COMPLETELY respect the point of view, I disagree that this is a given.

The discussion can be civil, rational and instructive...can it not?
 
Tim Morten said:
Just for the record, I appreciate that Michael is here responding. That is commendable. I suspect that I have been one of the harsher Arri critics here, but I don't mean for Michael to take that personally. :)
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Tim

Thanks for that now bugger off :-)

Seriously I can handle tough discussions, its how we all learn from each other!
 
Scott Crawley said:
LOL

Myopia rules.

Michael, I'm getting used to Red's irreverent manner when dealing with the public, but is such sarcasm meant to be part of the new Arri business plan? My image of them has been more... Well, more dignified than that.

I can understand why you might be frustrated but remember that you are in the heart of Red country. It's a zany place.:emote_hippie:
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C'mon Scott this is the REDUSER forum not an ARRI brochure, white paper or corporate document. Do I come off as undignified by being ever so slightly cheeky? Enjoy! Disagree! Learn! Have some fun! Learn some more! Life's too short!
 
Tony Lorentzen said:
I thought your camera wasn't eligible for the MX upgrade? Or was that the Epic-X upgrade?
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Officially MX upgrade has nothing to do with my void of RED warranty.

Call my RED1 in that case already "executed" for EPIC upgrade but will get its MX when is ready.
 
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