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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

When I hear 50% more processing power I think that should equate to a couple of clicks on the compression at various frame rates. Here is what I'm thinking, the difference between 12:1 and 6:1 is double the data or theoretically the need for twice (100% more) the processing power. So 50% more horse power would seem that where 12:1 used to be required at a certain frame rate/resolution then we should get about 9:1 with the Weapon. I really like to hear others thoughts about this. I am kinda guessing and I'm sure its not quite as simple as that.
 
Mark Pugh said:
Two channels of audio into the base expander?
Click to expand...

I needed to correct that post and did. The Base Expander doesn't provide Phantom Power it seems. I'll get the details at the booth. I'm on my way now.
 
I've been reading this thread since early Monday morning since I had to cancel my NAB trip due to shooting conflict issues. Work always comes first no?

Anyway, I agree with the general sentiment that RDC has dropped a couple of Ferrari's on their BMW showroom floor, an 8 cylinder Mg & a 12 cylinder CF version. For those who require or want the newest-latest-greatest this is manna from heaven. For many others, myself included I have to wonder whether it is worth this additional investment based on the future promise/premise that 8K Vista Vision will become a must-have camera feature. For VFX and some other usage especially anamorphic perhaps this is so, but for most cinema work - not so much.

As someone who has owned dozens of different production level camera systems since the 1970's including Plumbicon tube cameras, Betacams, and HDCAMs, I can speak with some degree of gravitas on one issue I know a lot about - what the clients we shoot for want is what is manifestly most important, not what we as filmmakers want to place in front of them. True, we do want to give them choices and present them with the right tools for the job, but in the end the budgets are always the tail that wags the dog and we must salute that wagging tail with what is affordable and right for the job, not just the latest-and-greatest by virtue of it being the latest-and-greatest.

I am sticking with the Epic Dragon because it's what my clients want and need for now. It's affordable and gets the job done with style and panache. Between the two OLPF filters I can get to any light level I need with ease. My clients love the Dragon film look and as the old advertising slogan goes - when the client gets what he wants, he gets what he deserves (insert tongue in cheek).

But there is one glaring omission in the Weapon feature set announced - no 4K output over HDMI 2.0 . What clients I speak with often really are excited about is the ability to view on set images in 4K on even just an HDTV monitor. Even though this is just a viewing-only feature, it is a value-added service that would make them happy and excited to use your package over another one without it. Sure you can buy the Recast Module for $7,000, then hook it up to Aja's Hi5-4K mini converter, but an easy drop dead simple HDMI 2.0 4K cable out of camera into monitor would have been something I might have considered spending extra loot on. Another (unnamed) camera maker has this feature on it's 4K camera, but sadly it appears this is not to be included at this point of Weapon features announcements.

As has been stated many many times in this long thread, Red revolutionized and democratized cinema production and I applaud and support their efforts both in the past and ongoing. I just feel, like some others that participating in this upgrade is unnecessary at this point in time. Having at various times over the years spent upwards of $100K on now obsolete camera systems like HDCAM (which did ultimately pay it's investment back handsomely), I think that spending the $50-65K for an 8K Vista Vision capable camera is not out of the question should my client base demand it - in the future. And in the meantime I'll keep happily billing for Epic Dragon shooting days.
 
It's not just the little guys who are jumping ship. A sizable rental house in Salt Lake City is completely eliminating their Red inventory which to me speaks volumes. I really hope Red is listening.
 
Joe Taylor said:
It's not just the little guys who are jumping ship. A sizable rental house in Salt Lake City is completely eliminating their Red inventory which to me speaks volumes. I really hope Red is listening.
Click to expand...
How big is that market? And is that the only reason or are there other reasons? For some markets, the Epic-X has still been rented out consistently, other markets the Dragon is more popular. I know nothing about the Salt lake City/Utah market. For all I know it's heavy on the Arri/Sony front which if that's what most of their clients want, then it makes sense they might want to unload their RED inventory.
 
Can I pre-order the Weapon Magnesium body during nab? or pre-orders are only available for CF bodies?
 
Both of our Epic-M's were ordered early Monday AM. I'm sure this will be a great camera. Would love to know when and how the 8K option comes to us commoners who aren't going for the Carbon Weapon....I was tempted but it's a lot extra to throw down right now for two new bodies, not to mention all the new media I'm going to have to shell out for in mini mags.
 
I was looking for a new Weapon magnesium body and not as an upgrade.. but it looks like that they're not accepting orders for the magnisium bodies at this moment. Through the info that i got from the red stand it looks like they're accepting orders only for the CF bodies.. its a shame!
 
Steve Sherrick said:
How big is that market? And is that the only reason or are there other reasons? For some markets, the Epic-X has still been rented out consistently, other markets the Dragon is more popular. I know nothing about the Salt lake City/Utah market. For all I know it's heavy on the Arri/Sony front which if that's what most of their clients want, then it makes sense they might want to unload their RED inventory.
Click to expand...


I can say that the market for Red rentals is incredibly cheap here in SLC.
There are a few "rich" kids/guys that have bought a bunch of Red cameras and are renting them out for next to nothing. One place has a full Dragon package for $200/day WITH OP!
That's the reason that I am in such a bind with this upgrade - I haven't made back my upgrade to Dragon fee yet with gigs. I made the jump to Dragon because it was going to cost me $3k more to do it later, but then it went back down again pre-NAB.
Weapon upgrade pricing just after getting Dragon really makes me wish I had not upgraded to Dragon.
I understand that time marches on, and that we are lucky to get an upgrade path like the one Red offers, but I just can't make the numbers work for me here.

Jim and Jarred, you guys were the saviors of the Indie Film segment. THANK YOU! I still can't believe that I made it this far into a Red workflow, but I don't see how I can keep up now.
 
Bruce Schultz said:
I've been reading this thread since early Monday morning since I had to cancel my NAB trip due to shooting conflict issues. Work always comes first no?

Anyway, I agree with the general sentiment that RDC has dropped a couple of Ferrari's on their BMW showroom floor, an 8 cylinder Mg & a 12 cylinder CF version. For those who require or want the newest-latest-greatest this is manna from heaven. For many others, myself included I have to wonder whether it is worth this additional investment based on the future promise/premise that 8K Vista Vision will become a must-have camera feature. For VFX and some other usage especially anamorphic perhaps this is so, but for most cinema work - not so much.

As someone who has owned dozens of different production level camera systems since the 1970's including Plumbicon tube cameras, Betacams, and HDCAMs, I can speak with some degree of gravitas on one issue I know a lot about - what the clients we shoot for want is what is manifestly most important, not what we as filmmakers want to place in front of them. True, we do want to give them choices and present them with the right tools for the job, but in the end the budgets are always the tail that wags the dog and we must salute that wagging tail with what is affordable and right for the job, not just the latest-and-greatest by virtue of it being the latest-and-greatest.

I am sticking with the Epic Dragon because it's what my clients want and need for now. It's affordable and gets the job done with style and panache. Between the two OLPF filters I can get to any light level I need with ease. My clients love the Dragon film look and as the old advertising slogan goes - when the client gets what he wants, he gets what he deserves (insert tongue in cheek).

But there is one glaring omission in the Weapon feature set announced - no 4K output over HDMI 2.0 . What clients I speak with often really are excited about is the ability to view on set images in 4K on even just an HDTV monitor. Even though this is just a viewing-only feature, it is a value-added service that would make them happy and excited to use your package over another one without it. Sure you can buy the Recast Module for $7,000, then hook it up to Aja's Hi5-4K mini converter, but an easy drop dead simple HDMI 2.0 4K cable out of camera into monitor would have been something I might have considered spending extra loot on. Another (unnamed) camera maker has this feature on it's 4K camera, but sadly it appears this is not to be included at this point of Weapon features announcements.

As has been stated many many times in this long thread, Red revolutionized and democratized cinema production and I applaud and support their efforts both in the past and ongoing. I just feel, like some others that participating in this upgrade is unnecessary at this point in time. Having at various times over the years spent upwards of $100K on now obsolete camera systems like HDCAM (which did ultimately pay it's investment back handsomely), I think that spending the $50-65K for an 8K Vista Vision capable camera is not out of the question should my client base demand it - in the future. And in the meantime I'll keep happily billing for Epic Dragon shooting days.
Click to expand...

I cannot understand why 4K HDMI 2.0 output isn't included when my Sony a7s which costs 1/13 the price and weighs about 1/13 as much does it without breaking a sweat.
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
It'll be added, I'd bet on it
Click to expand...
I bet it will be 2.0(a).

Nobody said it's 1.4, nobody said it's not 2.0.
Weapon-tech is 2014/2015 and still in development. HDMI2.0-specs are from 2013.

I think thats one of the parts that is simply not finalized yet and/or isn't that important in RED's eyes.

BTW, how about SuperMHL? It will be able to do 8k@120fps. ;)
 
Phil Holland said:
I needed to correct that post and did. The Base Expander doesn't provide Phantom Power it seems. I'll get the details at the booth. I'm on my way now.
Click to expand...

Be interested to know what story is on audio. I seem to recall back in the early Epic days we did not have phantom power out of the camera. Now we do and can use adapters like the Wooden Camera box A.
I am assuming one will still be able to do that with the Weapon Mg bundle as available now for upgrade?
 
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