Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

[Phil Holland]

Be interested to know what story is on audio. I seem to recall back in the early Epic days we did not have phantom power out of the camera. Now we do and can use adapters like the Wooden Camera box A.
I am assuming one will still be able to do that with the Weapon Mg bundle as available now for upgrade?

No Phantom Power on the BASE EXPANDER, but Yes Phantom Power on the REDVOLT EXPANDER which also has the full size XLR ports.

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

I think that is 3950 on top of the package. Ouch

 

[Phil Holland]

I think that is 3950 on top of the package. Ouch

That's one module I think a lot of people will use their Accessory Credit on for sure. Especially for general production shooting.

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

Checking with my BSR right now. Trying to see if I can forgo the 1750 base exapnder then and just go with the RV expander instead or whether there is someway to use a Sennheiser 416 with just the stereo plug. Keeping fingers crossed this is possible one way or the other.

 

[Maik Müller]

That's one module I think a lot of people will use their Accessory Credit on for sure. Especially for general production shooting.

Agreed, this one is a fantastic module.
I just wonder, is it possible to stack battery-modules this time, like the REDVOLT XL behind the REDVOLT EXPANDER?

This + a new SIDEHANDLE = dream.

To be honest, this is the one and only real disappointment to me, the absence of a new SIDEHANDLE for weapon. It should have been there for the launch. For me this is such a substantial part of my camera. I did never put it off since the arrival.

 

[alexjentz]

I heard somebody earlier saying that EPIC Dragon has or had no analog Gain so far whereas other Cameras might have that.

Is this a big advantage to have and will Weapon CF/Mg have possibly Analog Gain Functionality ? ( if it even helps in that Specific Camera Electronics Workflow )

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

Yes. It is possible to stack one module behind the other my BSR actually suggested it with the XL behind it. The real question right now is do you need base expander in your package at all if not good for audio - i.e: has no phantom power to run common mics....

 

[Maik Müller]

Yes. It is possible to stack one module behind the other my BSR actually suggested it with the XL behind it.

Cool! Thanks for the info.

 

[Adam Howden]

RED - JARRED, JANNARD.

Can someone explain the point of limiting the Magnesium body to 60 fps Pro Res 2K when the CF body goes to 120 fps.

I’m pretty disappointed that the main difference I can see between the CF Weapon and the Magnesiuem is the price tag of
$15000 for the extra 60 fps of pro res. To be honest it’s a real sticking point.

It seems like they weight the same too, so other than that extra 60 fps what are you getting?

Also, I’m confused with how the workflow will work on set. And I think Red have made yet another choice to complicate workflow when they should be simplifying it.

Say I’m shooting 5k 2:1 at 100 fps for only 6-7 shots in a day full of 5k:2:1 @ 25fps and 50 fps. What happens to those Pro Res shots?

Do I then have to explain to post, or a producer that they will need to identify those 100 fps shots and transcode them separetly as the camera stops recording 2K pro res at 60 fps? Seems pretty stupid, and I
can imagine myself having to say it on set and just cringing.

Honestly that’s just another layer of complexity that Red workflow doesn’t need, it’s really putting me off actually.

???

 

[Jarred Land]

RED - JARRED, JANNARD.

Can someone explain the point of limiting the Magnesium body to 60 fps Pro Res 2K when the CF body goes to 120 fps.

I’m pretty disappointed that the main difference I can see between the CF Weapon and the Magnesiuem is the price tag of
$15000 for the extra 60 fps of pro res. To be honest it’s a real sticking point.


???

It is not $15,000 just for Prores ( or the carbon fiber ) It is the cost of the amount ASICs inside ( processing ) .

CF Weapon has much more power (inside) can handle 8K and beyond... as well as the extra speed for ProRes, bigger Luts, and a few other things.

 

[Julian Banos]

Hi Jarred,

For the next generation sensor after Dragon, would the CF processing power help improve the image on RAW?

What I am still debating is weather there is going to be a benefit not only now with CF Weapon, but also for the next generation sensor.

Thanks!

 

[alexjentz]

It is not $15,000 just for Prores ( or the carbon fiber ) It is the cost of the amount ASICs inside ( processing ) .

CF Weapon has much more power (inside) can handle 8K and beyond... as well as the extra speed for ProRes, bigger Luts, and a few other things.

to add to that:

it is not an Artificial Limitation that RED Puts on the Magnesium Weapon, like other Manufacturers would maybe do it, i am sure everybody gets the Maximum of Power and Possibilities (and that then even evolves over time as we get Firmware Upgrades) from both Weapon Mg and CF.

Jarred i am gonna take the opportunity to ask a question again that might have been lost in the long thread here that i posed, but is important to the European Users and also 24p Cine Project Shooters:

you mentioned a new EVF, one thing in that regard would also really help in the future, if you possibly could share some insight on that or have that in mind for the Products Roadmap:

Is there a possibility for the new EVF support Native Refresh Rate Capabilities of 23.9p / 24p /25p / 48p /50p additionally to the common 29.9/59.9 ?
It would be a great deal if it could make it in the Product, because Operating Projects other than 29.9/59.9 is due to the Judder introduced currently very difficult - even most other reasonable 3rd Party Products can not support that currently - so it would fill a big hole of demand.

 

[Mark Andersen]

It is not $15,000 just for Prores ( or the carbon fiber ) It is the cost of the amount ASICs inside ( processing ) .

CF Weapon has much more power (inside) can handle 8K and beyond... as well as the extra speed for ProRes, bigger Luts, and a few other things.

When I hear this I get a little sad that I'm only getting a MG (awesome as the camera and the deal my be) does this mean CF will have considerably better compression performance? This compression question has been killing me all week but no one ever seems to discuss it, I assume that is because final specs are not known at this time.

 

[DJ Meyer]

Still trying to figure out why even bother with two body materials if they are roughly the same cost and weight?

 

[Medavoym]

It is not $15,000 just for Prores ( or the carbon fiber ) It is the cost of the amount ASICs inside ( processing ) .

CF Weapon has much more power (inside) can handle 8K and beyond... as well as the extra speed for ProRes, bigger Luts, and a few other things.

Jarred --

Lots of confusion these days and time is running out before everyone figures everything.

Regarding the 8K upgrade -- can we get more time to take advantage of the $10,000 discount offer?

A couple of months to get our shit together? It feels awfully limiting to have that discount for only a few days.

Many people asked for that.

Thanks!!!

 

[luigivaltulini]

Jarred --

Lots of confusion these days and time is running out before everyone figures everything.

Regarding the 8K upgrade -- can we get more time to take advantage of the $10,000 discount offer?

A couple of months to get our shit together? It feels awfully limiting to have that discount for only a few days.

Many people asked for that.

Thanks!!!

+1.

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

When I hear this I get a little sad that I'm only getting a MG (awesome as the camera and the deal my be) does this mean CF will have considerably better compression performance? This compression question has been killing me all week but no one ever seems to discuss it, I assume that is because final specs are not known at this time.

Yes this was giving me pain for a bit. But. I think if one is working Raw for the most part, and given the mini mags and the auto black shade fabulous, for regular work the Weapon Mg is gonna be great. You are going to be heavy in pixel peep town to tell them apart. Where the CF leaves us behind is as it makes its way to the 8K. But, they said that Mg can get its brain tweaked later if you want to go up further. So that is good and means we can get there in smaller bites. To me, the Mg plays to the current strength of mature dragon and just makes it better and easier to use - which is major.

 

[Zeb B]

When I hear this I get a little sad that I'm only getting a MG (awesome as the camera and the deal my be) does this mean CF will have considerably better compression performance? This compression question has been killing me all week but no one ever seems to discuss it, I assume that is because final specs are not known at this time.

RC improvement has not been directly addressed by RED for either Weapon Mg or CF so it's a safe bet that it has not improved a bunch from the current Dragon. If there was 50% improvement in RC . . . that would have been a headline.

It's certainly not going to make the Mg a second class camera to CF. Guessing they can pick up a 40% improvement in RC from current Dragon over the next year or so before they have to switch sensor design all together. To me RC is kind of a key metric, from what I have read over the years, it is as or more important than big Resolution if a clean, high color fidelity pic is your goal.

Guessing the store is closing soon so I'm placing my bets on what I know to be true and what facts have been offered by Team RED.

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred --

Lots of confusion these days and time is running out before everyone figures everything.

Regarding the 8K upgrade -- can we get more time to take advantage of the $10,000 discount offer?

A couple of months to get our shit together? It feels awfully limiting to have that discount for only a few days.

Many people asked for that.

Thanks!!!

It is one hell of an expensive sensor to make that takes a very long time to make and needs to be made in batches so condensing as many orders into this week gets that first order as big as it can be at the factory which saves both of us money... so that can't be extended. The 8k orders have blown way way way past our expectations and we really can't delay that first batch as it is not fair to everyone that already got their orders in.

That said.. We did a piss-poor job of explaining things clearly and changed so many things this week via your feedback, that we probably owe you guys at least through the weekend to figure things out.

 

[Jordan Buck]

It is one hell of an expensive sensor to make that takes a very long time to make and needs to be made in batches so condensing as many orders into this week gets that first order as big as it can be at the factory which saves both of us money... so that can't be extended. The 8k orders have blown way way way past our expectations and we really can't delay that first batch as it is not fair to everyone that already got their orders in.

That said.. We did a piss-poor job of explaining things clearly and changed so many things this week via your feedback, that we probably owe you guys at least through the weekend to figure things out.

This makes sense,

I am particular interested in what you say at the end about changing things via feedback. Interested to hear what has adjusted/what we dont know yet.

Are we likely to see the gap between carbon and MG grow before the next gen sensor? I really wish I had the extra funds for CF but MG is all I can afford.