Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

[Jeffrey Loewe]

This does make it seem that people who recently purchased Epic Dragon should have waited a bit longer to just buy the Weapon 6K instead, given both are roughly the same price.

This is something I can get behind and understand.

Had I not spent the $9500 on the upgrade, getting the Weapon actually would've been simpler. That said I still love my Epic Dragon and hope to earn enough to upgrade at some point in the future.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Is there any information/specs of power, how much power Weapon requires compared to Dragon?

Probably early to ask, but anyhow, does the shift from 6K to 8K affect sensitivity?

 

[Paul Kalbach]

Hey Alex, You can still order the Carbon 8K sensor upgrade after NAB, the cost is just higher.

Element Technical has a new side handle coming ( doesn't have a battery in it to power the camera but is really cool ) but it was not ready to show @ NAB.

Yes there will be a cable free EVF. We have a few prototypes at NAB if you are here you can take a look at.

Will the new side handle from ET have a PC sync terminal for firing strobes like the old DSMC Side Handle? Really wish it had a battery too!

 

[Chris Purka]

I do not understand why I keep hearing people complain about prices getting higher. We just ordered our Weapon Dragons and we paid a lower price for Weapon then we paid for the Epics when the Epics came out.

We purchased 4 Epic-M cameras for $39,900 when they came out, and we purchased 2 Carbon Epic Dragons for $50,000 when they came out.

Skip to today, and the price is $34,500 for the Magnesium Weapon version and $49,500 for the Carbon Weapon.

Weapon is a whole new level of camera than great Epic Dragon and the price is actually lower unless everyone is talking about something else. If it is about the trade-in, anyone that complains needs to stop it because the fact that you get a trade-in program at all you should be thankful for.

The best Alexa is over 100k and I don't care what anyone says even the Epic Dragon kicks it to the curb and now that we get prores onboard it is at a whole new level.

The Alexa 6.5k which will break your back I have been told has an insured value of $280,000.

So RED Thank you! Complainers will complain but I hope you can hear that you made us very happy.

 

[Tom Hanmer]

Like many others I am trying to come to a conclusion about upgrading to Weapon or staying with Epic and feel that there is more information that I need in order to be able to make this decision confidently.

What is the size and weight of both the magnesium and carbon weapon and how does that compare to the current epics. Is the CF weapon lighter than the CF Epic?


Does the base expander supply phantom power through the microphone input and is this input mono or stereo?


What is the quality of the built in digital microphones, would it be possible to use these to capture the sound of an interview if necessary or are they purely meant for scratch audio?


How long does it take for weapon to turn on and how long does it take to get to an ideal operating temperature?

 

[Phil Holland]

Hi Tom,

The MG and CF Weapons are both smaller than current Epic and Scarlet Dragons. The CF Weapon feels lighter than the Carbon Dragon, but once you add modules in there who knows. We'll need to weigh everything shortly. However, I will say Weapon has that built in Top Plate, so there's a weight savings on typical setups.

The Base Expander does not provide Phantom Power. But it is stereo. Weapon cameras can handle the two scratch tracks and two extra audio sources via the Expander Modules.

We'll have to test those internal mics to know for sure. I'm thinking they are designed for scratch audio, but you can likely do more with them. We'll see.

Startup time isn't exactly known yet. Also, the cameras on the show floor might not represent the shipping cameras. We'll likely know that soon as well.

 

[antoine carpentier]

To me the problem is not the price, it's just I was expecting more... (High speed full frame prores, wireless videos/proxy, 6k 4/3, internal NDs, etc ...)

The mains evolutions is pro res and full frame.
If I want to shoot in prores I can buy an amira for 30k$ and shoot same speed than WCF in prores (and my clients will be happy to see an arri on the set).
If I would shoot full frame I could use a canon DSLR (ok I'm doing a bite of provocations...). And what about the coolest ciné lenses (not full frame)?! My summicrons c serie, the ultra primes, RPPs, (ok anamorphiques hawks gonna rock on full frame...)

I'm trying and succeed to explain to my customers how cool/ better is to shoot in RAW , they finally start to edit with Adobe CC or FCPX!

I can't change my mind now, so I'm gonna keep my epic dragon full moduls! May be use the SSD program to change my 1.8 mags to mini mags and keep shooting in red for the next 2/3 years. But I'm not sure that the next camera I'm gonna buy will be a red....

see you at nab 2017!

 

[Patrick Tresch]

The wait could easily be too long.
And with the order of delivery scheduled, and delivery starting this summer, that would leave you without a camera for a long time, if you need it now.

"Normal" users (epic-m and epic-x) wont recieve their Weapon before 2016. Has anyone seen a weapon working (not Jarred's one wich is probably preproduction). There are still a lot of info missing on compression rates, actual R3d,...

I think we are 6+ months away from actual delivery.

 

[Phil Holland]

"Normal" users (epic-m and epic-x) wont recieve their Weapon before 2016. Has anyone seen a weapon working (not Jarred's one wich is probably preproduction). There are still a lot of info missing on compression rates, actual R3d,...

I think we are 6+ months away from actual delivery.

First Weapons ship in July 2015. But who knows. There could be delays.

Oh. Here you go.

RED Weapon Dragon 6K Magnesium in action:




RED Weapon Dragon 6K Carbon Fiber in action:





If you curious I shot with one today.

Compression Ratios are still being finalized to know the exact improvements.

.R3Ds are likely coming in the near future. It is the Dragon sensor, so you have a general baseline of what to expect.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hey Phil... That 8k baby... Have u seen it? (promise I won't tell!)

 

[vincent kardasik]

RED Weapon Dragon 6K Magnesium in action:

Damn... I want that screen so bad... I want that camera too actually... And the CF one also... Please, more pics!

 

[Tom Hanmer]

Thanks for the reply Phil. Was hoping to get the actual weights.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Yes Douglas, but you don't have the Weapon yet - right? Even if they do start shipping on time in July - there are priorities like CF Dragons and the Epic M's before the X's. Never mind the new orders and special cases of the likes of PJ, SS, etc. judging from past - PJ alone might order hundred of these... ;o)
So depending on where down the food-chain you are - you might be looking at one year or potentially even longer before you can get yours.
It really comes down to whether you are generating any income with your camera while you wait...

But I know where you are coming from. Even thou the Dragons were technically available for almost two years - in reality most have had theirs for only few months. Some even upgraded only just before NAB due to the cut-off promo...

We are quickly reaching the point where the technology is being developed so fast.
At least with RED we don't have to pay for SW upgrades. These normally cost a fair bit with other manufacturers - or even result in new cameras being released...

I know it's not easy - but we do need to include in our calculation the use we get out of our cameras...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Hey Phil,

Thanks for the fotos. I'm sure you and PJ will get the Weapon by end of July. But I can bet not all Weapon will be ready to ship by then as there is an upgrade priority. So this could be like the Dragon upgrade. It took about 6 months from the firts roll out of sensor up to out of backorder status.

People don't have to get nervous about their Epic-Dragon investment. It's still "up to date" until January 2016. After January 2016, Weapon will make some shadow to the Epic-D market.

Pat

 

[Jordan Buck]

So surely if its further away for us normal people (Dragon X) the pre order makes more sense now, you get the savings once you do get your body but you have more time to make more money with your current dragon set up?
This makes sense in my head, but the last 48 hours on red user have been a total mind field.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I placed my Weapon Magnesium order on Monday morning with the following expectations:

a. It will be quite a while before my Epic-X number is called, so I have time to stockpile the $$$ needed
b. The announced specs will probably change somewhat for the better as the Weapon nears its actual ship date
c. There will be a robust used market for DSMC modules and aks for a long time to come
d. That Weapon is at the beginning of its development cycle while Epic is nearing the end of its cycle
e. That at some future point, I can upgrade to Weapon CF and VistaVision if I can swing the $$$
f. While I wait for Weapon to arrive, I have one of the world's finest cameras to use and rent
g. That RED will continue to take care of its customer base as it has so many times in the past

just my .02...your mileage may vary...everyone has to make the best decision for their budget, circumstances and market.

 

[Mark Andersen]

I placed my Weapon Magnesium order on Monday morning with the following expectations:

a. It will be quite a while before my Epic-X number is called, so I have time to stockpile the $$$ needed
b. The announced specs will probably change somewhat for the better as the Weapon nears its actual ship date
c. There will be a robust used market for DSMC modules and aks for a long time to come
d. That Weapon is at the beginning of its development cycle while Epic is nearing the end of its cycle
e. That at some future point, I can upgrade to Weapon CF and VistaVision if I can swing the $$$
f. While I wait for Weapon to arrive, I have one of the world's finest cameras to use and rent
g. That RED will continue to take care of its customer base as it has so many times in the past

just my .02...your mileage may vary...everyone has to make the best decision for their budget, circumstances and market.

This is is pretty much my thinking as well. With Weapon 6K vs. Epic 6K I don't think the big difference is the final image, truthfully most people won't be able to tell. The difference is the user experience, the Weapon is just more convenient and capable, and a more pleasant user experience. It's the bells and whistles.

 

[Tarquin Cardona]

Argh. It do look pretty.

 

[Jordan Buck]

I placed my Weapon Magnesium order on Monday morning with the following expectations:

a. It will be quite a while before my Epic-X number is called, so I have time to stockpile the $$$ needed
b. The announced specs will probably change somewhat for the better as the Weapon nears its actual ship date
c. There will be a robust used market for DSMC modules and aks for a long time to come
d. That Weapon is at the beginning of its development cycle while Epic is nearing the end of its cycle
e. That at some future point, I can upgrade to Weapon CF and VistaVision if I can swing the $$$
f. While I wait for Weapon to arrive, I have one of the world's finest cameras to use and rent
g. That RED will continue to take care of its customer base as it has so many times in the past

just my .02...your mileage may vary...everyone has to make the best decision for their budget, circumstances and market.

you and I have very similar thoughts on all of this, now I just have to work my ass of until my number is called.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

This is is pretty much my thinking as well. With Weapon 6K vs. Epic 6K I don't think the big difference is the final image, truthfully most people won't be able to tell. The difference is the user experience

Totally agree, hopefully we get less compression at high frame rates, but otherwise Dragon image quality is great. Yes, user experience, but more importantly I think its about the name.

Dragon initially had a bad rep, noise, work flow etc - All fixed, but the bad rep lingers. Locally, the big 3 - Apple, Google, Facebook - almost exclusively spec Alexa because of this. Occasionally when they have someone new, they specifically say no Dragon, but they'll test an Epic. Silly. Hard to shake bad press, so they need a new name - Weapon.

Upgrades to Dragon were slower than expected, resulting in the better order your dragon upgrade before nab or you wont be cool - and the change back to having to place $$ deposits, not just order and pay when it ships.

Red's previous primary market demographic, low to mid end users, is completely saturated.

If they just released Weapon as a Dragon replacement at the same $25k price they would not sell very many cameras, everyone in that market already has a dragon/epic/scarlet. Plus increased competition from below - BM, C300m2, etc.

Dumping 1.8 redmags and new body requiring all new accessories = revenue stream

Obviously they dont want to race to the bottom and compete with BM so the only way is up - New price point for the high end/Alexa market = revenue stream, maybe...

ProRes option = good PR, but don't see the usage here - Episodic shows that don't want to deal with raw, want 4k+ prores, Features who want raw + HD dailies, want DNX, not prores.

Red supported everyone with the red one, epic, scarlet, and dragon - now it looks like they need money, so show your support, crack open the piggy bank and the lube and plonk down your deposits to help them stay in business.
Deposits are fully refundable, just get your money back if 8k turns into another nab clean room fiasco.