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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

It seems to me there are only two sensible choices. Stay with Epic Dragon that you have. Good camera that has benefited from the previous round of 'betaville' so approaching being a real mature 'tool'. OR. Invest in the Carbon Woven package. Because you will want the better LUTs and faster pro-res - in part because you will not want to hear why as an Mg owner your ProRes stuff doesn't look as good compared to CF folks. The lighter body and this dual shooting for what will amount to about a 32ish thousand hit is what will competitively bring you into a potentially superior spot to Alexa Mini for less cost - which will be good provided the images (especially the pro res images) look gorgeous. But we have not seen the evidence or samples for this yet have we? Should we? Probably. Otherwise the pro res is pointless as Adobe has put the new Red color controls in Premiere. Sweet!

Arri has shown what the mini can do and it is very pretty. If CFW can match at this price then Red did you a favor. So Mg is no go in my view. Not just whether you want 8K down the road or not but because you will want the better processors etc to get the best pix or you will be frustrated. It won't rent well comparatively as everyone wants the better cam, or they will go Dragon.

The choice is stick with the Epic Dragon tried and tested tool. Or go CF Weapon with the electronics of the future.

You have to decide which you are: a tool, or a weapon:)
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey Alex, You can still order the Carbon 8K sensor upgrade after NAB, the cost is just higher.

Element Technical has a new side handle coming ( doesn't have a battery in it to power the camera but is really cool ) but it was not ready to show @ NAB.

Yes there will be a cable free EVF. We have a few prototypes at NAB if you are here you can take a look at.
Click to expand...

Hi Jarred,

thank you very much for all the Informative Updates, that helps understanding on what the different Weapon Upgrade Options actually really mean in the long term, and we need to know to plan the future!
And with these Infos it makes all Sense now and we can plan ahead.

As you mentioned a new EVF, one thing in that regard would also really help to plan ahead, if you possibly could share some insight on that or have that in mind for the Products Roadmap:

Will it support Native Refresh Rate Capabilities of 23.9p / 24p /25p / 48p /50p additionally to the common 29.9/59.9 ?
It would be a great deal if it could make it in the Product, because Operating Projects other than 29.9/59.9 is due to the Judder introduced currently very difficult - even most other reasonable 3rd Party Products can not support that currently - so it would fill a big hole of demand.
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
It seems to me there are only two sensible choices. Stay with Epic Dragon that you have. Good camera that has benefited from the previous round of 'betaville' so approaching being a real mature 'tool'. OR. Invest in the Carbon Woven package. Because you will want the better LUTs and faster pro-res - in part because you will not want to hear why as an Mg owner your ProRes stuff doesn't look as good compared to CF folks. The lighter body and this dual shooting for what will amount to about a 32ish thousand hit is what will competitively bring you into a potentially superior spot to Alexa Mini for less cost - which will be good provided the images (especially the pro res images) look gorgeous. But we have not seen the evidence or samples for this yet have we? Should we? Probably. Otherwise the pro res is pointless as Adobe has put the new Red color controls in Premiere. Sweet!

Arri has shown what the mini can do and it is very pretty. If CFW can match at this price then Red did you a favor. So Mg is no go in my view. Not just whether you want 8K down the road or not but because you will want the better processors etc to get the best pix or you will be frustrated. It won't rent well comparatively as everyone wants the better cam, or they will go Dragon.

The choice is stick with the Epic Dragon tried and tested tool. Or go CF Weapon with the electronics of the future.

You have to decide which you are: a tool, or a weapon:)
Click to expand...

yeah but for the people that don't have the 32 ish straight up, like me, I'm softening my blow over two periods, I go magnesium now, re value my camera and have some added features and a re designed body, then when I am ready and have the cash I go to VV through the CF weapon upgrade route, otherwise I spend the same if not more at a later date and don't get the 5K accessories etc for a system that will still eventually render my modules useless?
 
Jordan. I guess what I was trying to be was optimistic. I think that now that a lot of bugs have been worked out in Dragon it is a pretty safe and good camera to work with. With Weapon one is back in R and D town and no one has seen footage of Red Pro Rez which I would need to see to make the step. Red has offered to keep our upgradeability from Dragon to Weapon for when we are comfortable. In fact I have even heard the 5K accessory thing may endure past NAB but there is a lot of talk flying right now. Anyway. To me the magic is at the CF level if one is to really go up from Dragon. The step to Mg would make sense to me only if somebody stated I can evolve that camera up to CF level processing later without spending even more that way.

The bummer is that I think the Dragon to CF is the best deal - though I admit 32K does not sound like a deal. I hear what you are saying but that path makes me leery for some reason versus - wait - use Dragon - save money and make the upgrade later to CF. For me it is critical see how good Red Pro Res is first because that is what the producer is going to look at. If I did this move and the producer looks at the Weapon Mg 2K red pro res and still likes Arri better I would be unhappy and out of pocket a fair bit for the knowledge.
 
Yeah I definitely see what your saying - and I think its a case by case basis isn't it, not everyone should be or will be taking the same routes, but I guess thats why there is options.
From what I have read, Jared mentioned that MG is upgradeable, so I am of the belief that you can then go to carbon, and then to VV. I have my place in line, I have another 9 days to pay for it so I'm hoping a few specs and some footage etc. pops up
 
I just wish there was an aluminum option. I get the benefits of Mg and CF and I also understand that weapon is meant as another tier of camera, rather than a natural transition for epic users. But i don't really shoot things that much that would require a magnesium or CF body. I'd like there to be an option for the CF internals (or even the Mg) to be put into an aluminum weapon. That would theoretically bring the price down to a much more manageable level due to the ease of using/machining aluminum.
 
Jarred Land said:
Ah Now I get you. Remember the Magnesium Weapon is made of Magnesium and not Aluminum like the Epic/Scarlet, The Magnesium is a more expensive process for us so the spread isn't as big as it was between the Aluminum and Carbon Fiber of the Epic.

To put it in perspective, the current Magnesium PL mount for the Epic is $3500, the Titanium PL mount is $2000.
Click to expand...

So why not produce an aluminum Weapon and pass on the huge savings over the magnesium and CF options?
Many more people would be able to upgrade to the internal specs that the CF offers, and join a straighter path to, say, 8k?
 
Mark Pugh said:
So why not produce an aluminum Weapon and pass on the huge savings over the magnesium and CF options?
Many more people would be able to upgrade to the internal specs that the CF offers, and join a straighter path to, say, 8k?
Click to expand...

Second this. Aluminum Weapon upgrade for around $10k would be an easier pill to swallow.
 
My biggest disappointment is limiting the Mg Weapon to 60fps ProRes. 120fps would have sealed the deal for me, but 60fps has the potential to cause all sorts of problems at post when the DIT missed transcoding the clips that were shot at 75, 96 etc. Generally, most the frame rates used fall within the 120fps range, so this should have been included in both versions. I get the CF only VV upgrade path which makes sense for high end. I would have gone with offering 2 Weapon options, a uncompromised 6K Mg Weapon at the current Mg upgrade price and a top of the range 8K Vista Vision CF Weapon. I think there would have been a lot more Epic Dragon owners that would have upgraded, especially to the Mg Weapon. I reckon I will skip this upgrade for my Dragons and upgrade on the next Red evolution.
 
Peter, it would be one thing if I owned the camera for 3 years. It's another thing to have purchased and Epic MX, upgraded to Dragon, all within under 1 year, and then to have RED release a totally new body for the same price.
 
Has there been any official word on the weight of the Magnesium Weapon? If they were able to significantly lower the overall weight of the camera VS Epic then that would be a huge selling point for me. I want to fly this thing on the new Ronin!
 
Jake there has been images of Weapon Crbn on the Ronin M - the weight of carbon weapon works I can't imagine the magnesium being significantly more to stress the motors out enough to make it not possible, I would take an educated guess that you would be fine flying Weapon MG on ronin M
 
Russ Campbell said:
My biggest disappointment is limiting the Mg Weapon to 60fps ProRes. 120fps would have sealed the deal for me, but 60fps has the potential to cause all sorts of problems at post when the DIT missed transcoding the clips that were shot at 75, 96 etc. Generally, most the frame rates used fall within the 120fps range, so this should have been included in both versions. I get the CF only VV upgrade path which makes sense for high end. I would have gone with offering 2 Weapon options, a uncompromised 6K Mg Weapon at the current Mg upgrade price and a top of the range 8K Vista Vision CF Weapon. I think there would have been a lot more Epic Dragon owners that would have upgraded, especially to the Mg Weapon. I reckon I will skip this upgrade for my Dragons and upgrade on the next Red evolution.
Click to expand...

Jarred has stated that most of the price difference between MG and Carbon is due to the internals. Meaning that a 120fps MG would cost about as much as a carbon weapon. The camera you want does exist. It's just in a carbon housing.
 
Jordan Buck said:
Jake there has been images of Weapon Crbn on the Ronin M - the weight of carbon weapon works I can't imagine the magnesium being significantly more to stress the motors out enough to make it not possible, I would take an educated guess that you would be fine flying Weapon MG on ronin M
Click to expand...

Ah thanks - just saw the photos! Hopefully the Magnesium body is close in weight to the CF body. I remember reading in one of the posts that the CF Weapon was just under 4lbs.
 
This does make it seem that people who recently purchased Epic Dragon should have waited a bit longer to just buy the Weapon 6K instead, given both are roughly the same price.

Douglas Quill said:
Peter, it would be one thing if I owned the camera for 3 years. It's another thing to have purchased and Epic MX, upgraded to Dragon, all within under 1 year, and then to have RED release a totally new body for the same price.
Click to expand...
 
MichaelJQuill said:
This does make it seem that people who recently purchased Epic Dragon should have waited a bit longer to just buy the Weapon 6K instead, given both are roughly the same price.
Click to expand...

The wait could easily be too long.
And with the order of delivery scheduled, and delivery starting this summer, that would leave you without a camera for a long time, if you need it now.
 
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