American DITs... ugghhh

[Ivan Kovax]

Well then you should change the title of your thread to an American DIT, not the plural. You generalized. I understand what you were getting at, though.

I can't change thread titles... plus I am on set now so I typed in a rush Though the body of the post was rather specific and clear, so I am not sure where anybody could have been confused.

But I am glad you get the point. I think it is a valid question, and it is one that should be discussed openly amongst us with minimal attitude involved.

Hell, about 33% of my work is DIT related stuff, so it impacts me too.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Company 3 (a Post House here in LA) will charge you a good $5000+ per day for color-corrected sync-sound dailies. A Local 600 DIT makes about $650/10 hrs scale. Add proper gear like monitors, waveform, computers and that rate can easily double. Even at $1500/day + a DIT is a huge cost-effective solution. Even for productions that complain about DITs being "overpaid".

What do you get out of bed for? Japan isn't the cheapest place to call home.

The job isn't "easy". If it were, any Douchebag could do it...

Actually, Japan is not as expensive as one would think.

I charge 50,000/day (about $500 bucks a day). That is for a 10 or 12 hour day. After that I do time and a half unless the rate is negotiated as a fixed rate in advance. I often rent out my camera when I am DIT as well, so this adds value to the services. They get good deal on the camera when this happens, but which ends up pissing of rental houses.. heh.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

You've got two things going here, Ivan. First, you had a bad personal experience on set. As we all know this goes with the territory. If the only Douchebags you encounter in the film/tv industry take the form of DITs count yourself lucky. Second, you seem to be irked about how much "American DITs" can make per day. Honestly, I'd love to know what you charge for DIT services in Japan. Specifically if you charge for extra gear like monitors or computers.

If you can justify the cost to me, then you can probably justify it to anybody

Well, is it justified here in the good-old-U-S-of-A?

 

[Ivan Kovax]

You've got two things going here, Ivan. First, you had a bad personal experience on set. As we all know this goes with the territory. If the only Douchebags you encounter in the film/tv industry take the form of DITs count yourself lucky. Second, you seem to be irked about how much "American DITs" can make per day. Honestly, I'd love to know what you charge for DIT services in Japan. Specifically if you charge for extra gear like monitors or computers.







Well, is it justified here in the good-old-U-S-of-A?

I wouldn't say irked (or maybe that is right). Mostly fascinated. Okay irked.

I am not sure what your USA comment meant though...

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Those Damnh Americans =) They are so bad ass arnt they.
Ok kidding aside.
.

BigLu... thanks for your in depth answer. Much appreciated

 

[Adrian Jebef]

I am not sure what your USA comment meant though...

Your thread is US-specific. Did I justify a DIT's cost to you?

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Your thread is US-specific. Did I justify a DIT's cost to you?

If you broke down all the costs then perhaps I could answer that. As it stands, I can't. In relation to the person I was discussing, no fucking way. 1,000/day in salary is still far too much IMHO. If that had equipment included I could understand.

Adrian, I went to your website and I think it is great. You have seemed to carve out a nice little niche for yourself, and are marketing yourself quite well it seems. Which I think is great.

I am technically an American. Rather skilled as a DIT. Maybe I should charge that rate the aforementioned douche is charging too and see what happens

 

[Andrew clemson]

#1: The business is changing. Fast. Every week.

#2: Post is now on set. Assistant Editors are a thing of the Past. Asking a 1st AC to handle Post issues is silly.

#3: A DIT that can handle data, QC, color-correct live-stream video per the Director's and DP's vision, provide sync colored dailies with proper metadata, and help out the rest of the camera dept. is worth $2000 a day. A year ago this took at least 24 hours and cost at least twice as much.

#4: There were, are, and always will be Douchebags in this world.

#5: If you can't deal with working with Douchebags you're in the wrong business.

Well put Adrian

Ivan, Im coming from a relatively small market, so there arent as many egos here (There isnt enough work to maintain them).

I think its important to point out there is a flip side to this equation. Standard rate here is less than half the amount your guy is on and it is nigh on impossible to charge much more than around $150 for equipment. I regularly get asked why I charge "so much" for gear even if I bring a full station with LICENSES (as apparently mental as that is), RAIDS, rocket etc etc. After all that I actually sometimes get bitched at for not supplying client drives for free.

Ive worked multicamera, multiformat shoots where cameras are in double digits and where production flatly refuses to pay for a tower, let alone a proper cart. They then moan about overtime, which here is just pro rata on a 12 hour basic day.

As soon as something goes wrong, who is the first person in the firing line? Me. (Touch wood, not that Ive had any issues)

Anyway, rant over...... My point is, Most people charging those kind of $$$$ are doing so because they know what they are doing, have dropped many times that much in gear, and are saving the production serious money in post. Perhaps some people are charging too much relative to their skillset or experience level, but at some point (soon with the ramping up of data and technology these days) they will slip up, and likely not be hired again.

Im sure I sometimes come across as a little "douchebag-y" to some producers if Im struggling to work professionally on a particularly difficult job.

 

[Ian Laurie]

Interesting discussion. I think a lot of the attitude comes from previous experience. I generally am a pretty amiable person on set ( I think) but there have been times that I felt like i was despised by the AC's. It comes with the territory. you have the ear of the cinematographer in a way that they don't always have. When he needs advice about camera exposure, or if a certain shot will work for post he asks his camera operators, and the DIT. This creates bad feeling for the AC's. It's probably due to the fact that a position that didn't even exist in the pecking order a few years ago, has suddenly in their opinion superseded them. I have also dealt with post houses that reported back day after day that the footage wouldn't work for them, only to have the producer turn to the DIT and ask why... Then told to go to their offices and find out what problem they are having.... you can guess how well that went down with the post house. But I was right, they were using outdated editing software (by nearly 7 years) and outdated hardware ( by at least 7 as well). So what do I tell the producer then? Show comes first. That company has repeatedly bad mouthed me to productions, so whats the value in being willing to do that? They are a large post house, and i am an individual. on first impression who would you listen too? Its cost me work many times, but it had to be done. As for not being creative, I have found that being extremely versatile as a DIT has lead to me doing compositing, editing, colour grading and more on set and in post. You are getting someone who knows how to deal with things, and should something unexpected happen, someone with the brain power and skill set to fix it, or at the very least know if it can be repaired in post and how difficult that would be. Having said all this, I don't get paid nearly 1k a day. so i guess people will pay what they are willing to pay. Are some jobs unbelievably slow? you bet ( i did one commercial where i offloaded 1 card in the entire day, So I did some cam assist as well... which was very little as there was 2 set ups.) but other days are hell. you never know which you are gonna get. you charge one rate, and go with it.

 

[Andrew clemson]

Wow, 2 more pages of replies in the time it took to write....

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Great response Andrew. Thanks.

 

[Ivan Kovax]

Interesting discussion. I think a lot of the attitude comes from previous experience. I generally am a pretty amiable person on set ( I think) but there have been times that I felt like i was despised by the AC's. It comes with the territory. you have the ear of the cinematographer in a way that they don't always have. When he needs advice about camera exposure, or if a certain shot will work for post he asks his camera operators, and the DIT. This creates bad feeling for the AC's. It's probably due to the fact that a position that didn't even exist in the pecking order a few years ago, has suddenly in their opinion superseded them. I have also dealt with post houses that reported back day after day that the footage wouldn't work for them, only to have the producer turn to the DIT and ask why... Then told to go to their offices and find out what problem they are having.... you can guess how well that went down with the post house. But I was right, they were using outdated editing software (by nearly 7 years) and outdated hardware ( by at least 7 as well). So what do I tell the producer then? Show comes first. That company has repeatedly bad mouthed me to productions, so whats the value in being willing to do that? They are a large post house, and i am an individual. on first impression who would you listen too? Its cost me work many times, but it had to be done. As for not being creative, I have found that being extremely versatile as a DIT has lead to me doing compositing, editing, colour grading and more on set and in post. You are getting someone who knows how to deal with things, and should something unexpected happen, someone with the brain power and skill set to fix it, or at the very least know if it can be repaired in post and how difficult that would be. Having said all this, I don't get paid nearly 1k a day. so i guess people will pay what they are willing to pay. Are some jobs unbelievably slow? you bet ( i did one commercial where i offloaded 1 card in the entire day, So I did some cam assist as well... which was very little as there was 2 set ups.) but other days are hell. you never know which you are gonna get. you charge one rate, and go with it.

Awesome answer Ian Laurie. Thanks.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

If you broke down all the costs then perhaps I could answer that. As it stands, I can't. In relation to the person I was discussing, no fucking way. 1,000/day in salary is still far too much IMHO. If that had equipment included I could understand.

Adrian, I went to your website and I think it is great. You have seemed to carve out a nice little niche for yourself, and are marketing yourself quite well it seems. Which I think is great.

I am technically an American. Rather skilled as a DIT. Maybe I should charge that rate the aforementioned douche is charging too and see what happens

A union DIT here in LA will make about $650-$850 per 12/hour day on a commercial shoot. Gear can range anywhere from an extra $300-$1500 depending on a production's needs. The NYC market consistently demands higher pay rates. I'd say anywhere from an extra 10-25% markup on our LA prices.

Thanks for checking out my site. It's old but still sorta gets the job done.

And you should always charge more!

:sifone:

 

[Andrew clemson]

Interesting discussion. I think a lot of the attitude comes from previous experience. I generally am a pretty amiable person on set ( I think) but there have been times that I felt like i was despised by the AC's. It comes with the territory. you have the ear of the cinematographer in a way that they don't always have. When he needs advice about camera exposure, or if a certain shot will work for post he asks his camera operators, and the DIT. This creates bad feeling for the AC's. It's probably due to the fact that a position that didn't even exist in the pecking order a few years ago, has suddenly in their opinion superseded them. I have also dealt with post houses that reported back day after day that the footage wouldn't work for them, only to have the producer turn to the DIT and ask why... Then told to go to their offices and find out what problem they are having.... you can guess how well that went down with the post house. But I was right, they were using outdated editing software (by nearly 7 years) and outdated hardware ( by at least 7 as well). So what do I tell the producer then? Show comes first. That company has repeatedly bad mouthed me to productions, so whats the value in being willing to do that? They are a large post house, and i am an individual. on first impression who would you listen too? Its cost me work many times, but it had to be done. As for not being creative, I have found that being extremely versatile as a DIT has lead to me doing compositing, editing, colour grading and more on set and in post. You are getting someone who knows how to deal with things, and should something unexpected happen, someone with the brain power and skill set to fix it, or at the very least know if it can be repaired in post and how difficult that would be. Having said all this, I don't get paid nearly 1k a day. so i guess people will pay what they are willing to pay. Are some jobs unbelievably slow? you bet ( i did one commercial where i offloaded 1 card in the entire day, So I did some cam assist as well... which was very little as there was 2 set ups.) but other days are hell. you never know which you are gonna get. you charge one rate, and go with it.

This is a fair point, I work with Ac's (and even DoPs to an extent) who I get on with well, and have a good working relationship with. I also know a few whose name I dread seeing on a callsheet. Thats because I have found there are generally 2 schools of thought. Those who value your opinion because they want to provide the production with a better result, and those who are terrified at having their knowledge and experience "questioned" as it were.

Even with the ones You dont get on with its important to try and hammer out a way of working amicably otherwise no-one wins professionally. (and as soon as they mess up you are likely to get throw under the metaphorical bus)

 

[Andrew clemson]

Great response Andrew. Thanks.

No Problem, I feel your pain. This guy clearly lucked out in landing the gig somehow, like mentioned before perhaps he was related to someone.... It happens more than I would have thought!

Often the weakest point in the chain is production, if they hire the wrong people, then it can have the biggest ramifications....

 

[Ivan Kovax]

A union DIT here in LA will make about $650-$850 per 12/hour day on a commercial shoot. Gear can range anywhere from an extra $300-$1500 depending on a production's needs. The NYC market consistently demands higher pay rates. I'd say anywhere from an extra 10-25% markup on our LA prices.

Thanks for checking out my site. It's old but still sorta gets the job done.

And you should always charge more!

:sifone:

Here is a very honest question for you. On DIT jobs that involve essentially nothing more than clicking, how on earth do you justify charging 2-3 times as much as the AC, and nearly as much as the camera op? That part still seems a little concerning to me. Mostly for the fact that when I op, there is no way in the world that I want my DIT getting as much as me

 

[Ivan Kovax]

No Problem, I feel your pain. This guy clearly lucked out in landing the gig somehow, like mentioned before perhaps he was related to someone.... It happens more than I would have thought!

Often the weakest point in the chain is production, if they hire the wrong people, then it can have the biggest ramifications....

What was amazing is that they could have hired me to do the job, hired my camera, I would have done the job just as well, if not better, for probably a better rate... even taking into account the flight costs, his rate and the ger rate... strange world this is.

 

[Andrew clemson]

Here is a very honest question for you. On DIT jobs that involve essentially nothing more than clicking, how on earth do you justify charging 2-3 times as much as the AC, and nearly as much as the camera op? That part still seems a little concerning to me. Mostly for the fact that when I op, there is no way in the world that I want my DIT getting as much as me

I guess the danger of charging less is that people will try to get away with it every time. Its a bit like charging a lower rate as a focus puller for a sit down interview versus handheld action scenes.

For those kind of gigs theres always the option of hiring someone cheaper or less experienced, but again that's productions call.

 

[Andrew clemson]

What was amazing is that they could have hired me to do the job, hired my camera, I would have done the job just as well, if not better, for probably a better rate... even taking into account the flight costs, his rate and the ger rate... strange world this is.

I deal with the exact same issue all the time, I regularly walk on set to find underequipped cameras at rates much higher than I would have charged.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

Here is a very honest question for you. On DIT jobs that involve essentially nothing more than clicking, how on earth do you justify charging 2-3 times as much as the AC, and nearly as much as the camera op? That part still seems a little concerning to me. Mostly for the fact that when I op, there is no way in the world that I want my DIT getting as much as me

I never work as a "Digital Downloader" or "Media Manager" or "Digital Utility" or whatever... 90% of my work is in national commercials where I provide complete pre-thru-post services including color-correction and dailies. My rates vary from job to job as do my gear rentals depending on a job's needs. The issue really isn't how one gets paid well for the job on hand, it's about how one gets paid even better for the next job.