Adobe Abandons Creative Suite, Announces Full Switch to Creative Cloud

[Mike Smith]

Good points Bud, but I personally don't want any NLE that is tied to a specific line of cameras. I want to be able to mix and match any time I feel like it.

I think this episode points to the folly of buying into a bundle of software packages. Let's face it, how often do we need Photoshop updates for the majority of tasks it performs? With the likes of Lightworks out there, editing is also covered. So really, we only need a good AE replacement and Adobe's out of here. And a color correction package such as Resolve. That way, if we have to change a package, we don't have to relearn the whole pipeline.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Good points Bud, but I personally don't want any NLE that is tied to a specific line of cameras. I want to be able to mix and match any time I feel like it.

I think this episode points to the folly of buying into a bundle of software packages. Let's face it, how often do we need Photoshop updates for the majority of tasks it performs? With the likes of Lightworks out there, editing is also covered. So really, we only need a good AE replacement and Adobe's out of here. And a color correction package such as Resolve. That way, if we have to change a package, we don't have to relearn the whole pipeline.

Options are always good. The alternatives for Photoshop exist but there's a reason they aren't as widely in use as PS. Lightworks is the most intriguing NLE of them all and it works on subscription. If the developers decide to abandon the project, it's left to open source community. There are risks with everything. Mitigating risk is a good trait to have in running a business, so I can understand people's concerns with Adobe's change in policy. Every business owner who owns these products should be watching this development very carefully, getting all of the answers they need to make informed decisions moving forward. CS 6 still exists in its current form, so there is a window to assess the situation. And as someone who is trying to stay up to date with the various NLEs and other software, I can appreciate the many hours invested in training and why a change in policy could ultimately mean some time wasted. That's why I think it's important to let the dust settle before going to extreme measures.

 

[Mike Smith]

Options are always good. The alternatives for Photoshop exist but there's a reason they aren't as widely in use as PS. Lightworks is the most intriguing NLE of them all and it works on subscription. If the developers decide to abandon the project, it's left to open source community. There are risks with everything. Mitigating risk is a good trait to have in running a business, so I can understand people's concerns with Adobe's change in policy. Every business owner who owns these products should be watching this development very carefully, getting all of the answers they need to make informed decisions moving forward. CS 6 still exists in its current form, so there is a window to assess the situation. And as someone who is trying to stay up to date with the various NLEs and other software, I can appreciate the many hours invested in training and why a change in policy could ultimately mean some time wasted. That's why I think it's important to let the dust settle before going to extreme measures.

Lightworks is free if you don't want all the codecs. If you do, it's only $60 a year. And it's subscription from the get-go. They didn't sell it first for years for thousands of dollars per customer and then go subscription only and giving a middle finger to the folks that put them on top.

You're right though about options being good. That's why Adobe taking their main one away has annoyed so many people. I can see why the CEO thinks it's a great thing: They introduced it and a lot of folks that couldn't or were unwilling to buy a CS suite could suddenly afford to get in to try it out. So Adobe saw a sudden cash insurge primarily from new customers. "Hey! We should do this with everyone!", he probably thought. "Then we could fire a bunch of people we don't need any more and save a ton of money. Once we have everyone on board, they won't be able to leave coz they'll be locked in to our software."

 

[Doug Beatty]

Lightworks is $5 a month for the pro version. Premiere is $20 a month. Of course, Lightworks doesn't have a rotobrush-warp-stabilizer-dynamic-link to Cinema 4D, but I like the layout and philosophy. And it works full screen on a 2nd monitor connected to a GPU and compatible with BMD cards.

If Adobe offered different tiers of subscriptions like they did with CS suites, then it would be easier to stomach. Say, "pick two for $14.99" or "pick 3 for 19.99" rather than the "choke down all the apps for $50 because it's a great deal for everyone" mentality they have going on. Baloney!

 

[Johnny Friday]

If Adobe offered different tiers of subscriptions like they did with CS suites, then it would be easier to stomach. Say, "pick two for $14.99" or "pick 3 for 19.99" rather than the "choke down all the apps for $50 because it's a great deal for everyone" mentality they have going on. Baloney!

Yes, this would be a slightly better option for sure....but hyping how great a deal it is for "ALL" those Adobe apps in a bundle...well, i bought the suite and if i use half the apps i'm lucky. I have no use for most that is offered in the bundle nor will i likely ever use them.

 

[Jeff Whitehurst]

I can see why the CEO thinks it's a great thing: They introduced it and a lot of folks that couldn't or were unwilling to buy a CS suite could suddenly afford to get in to try it out. So Adobe saw a sudden cash insurge primarily from new customers. "Hey! We should do this with everyone!", he probably thought. "Then we could fire a bunch of people we don't need any more and save a ton of money. Once we have everyone on board, they won't be able to leave coz they'll be locked in to our software."

...AND we can aggressively monetize the social platform once theyʻre all in, AND we can jack up the contract prices after the bait pricing gets them hooked, AND we donʻt have to innovate based upon customer needs to generate revenue. Perfect, except one big question.

If this model is so great for the existing customer, why havenʻt all the millions of users made the switch on their own? 479K customers (many new) signed up for the subscription, 12.8 million existing customers are left with an increasingly worthless product.
Thatʻs not what I would call universal acceptance. This move is plainly coercion. I not only object on moral principle to any company that does business in that fashion, but I wonʻt be subscribing because I think it weakens the company and its future expectations.

 

[Bruce Allen]

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

Thanks for checking in here, Al! To be honest, I'm conflicted. I think that Adobe's software is fantastic value for money and am fine to pay more.

My biggest fear is trusting Adobe's own CEO:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/14/adobe-ceo-dodges-pricing-questions/

He seems like a shifty shark!

I fear that he'll get some nice new features into Creative Cloud over the next few years to tempt us... then after we've moved our projects to Creative Cloud app versions... he'll slow down feature development and raise prices on us now that we're locked in.

I also suspect that he would have no problem doing something like taking a chunk of the money that the filmmakers are paying for Creative Cloud... and pushing that into hiring a bunch of developers for some stupid app like Muse (not now, but in a few years when we are locked in).

Personally I preferred it when we could pay for just Production Premium. That way we could send a really clear financial message to Adobe about where our priorities as customers were. And if there things in the new version that were improved useful to us, we would just not upgrade.

The fact that this CEO seems to be working really hard to take financial control away from customers is scary.

I like cloud services. But I like ones that don't lock you in. Adobe has never been particularly friendly to open standards, backwards compatibility, etc.

I'm paying for Creative Cloud for now. It's a fantastic value for the first year. However, long-term I must admit that a Resolve / Media Composer / Nuke / Pro Tools pipeline suddenly seems like a good value. You get a perpetual license and the Avid and Foundry products definitely don't need to be on the latest versions to collaborate. Also in a lot of cases the product is more advanced than the Adobe equivalent. I bet that Pro Tools bought right now will still kick Audition's ass - even after Audition has had 3 years worth of Creative Cloud updates. Especially when you budget in that the CEO is might raise prices to $100/month in a few year's time and that development may very well slow down once folks are locked in. It's a tricky calculus.

Just airing my concerns. Thanks for listening! I've used Premiere since version 5.5 (non-Pro version) BTW!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinem.com

 

[Brian Merlen]

well its good to know cs6 won't support dragon(s).... at least they are making us aware so we can make an informed choice on whether to buy into CC or not... personally i can't justify it since i spend more time working on other businesses machines these days then my own. it didn't make sense to upgrade my CS5 until this version came out, which obviously isn't happening... so I am in the market to sell my disks and put up a listing in the for sale section should anyone want it?

besides it was always a pain to keep good at avid apple and adobe products to handle any client. by becoming more avid centric i can save myself a lot of work and money by phasing out the other EOL suites...

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

That's because, in your own words, you've never owned the software. So you get in for the monthly rental. Many here have spent thousands as loyal customers only to get told "FU", you will come on board our new plan or run with outdated software. No ramping this in. They even admitted a few posts back that they intend to continue to sell CS6 without further updates!

If this model is a success, the first time they add $5/month to their rental, Wall Street will love them. It won't take long before they decide they need to add another $5/month. Then $10. The magic for Adobe is, they no longer need to do anything to the software to keep charging for it. They can really unload their engineering "dead weight". Even you all-time renters might start to realize that you don't own any of your creative work since it's useless without Adobe's increasingly more expensive rented software.

um no, that's not what I said. 49€ or whatever it is, we can pay that easily. but when you're looking into buying a handfull of licences for the full suite all AT ONCE, to us that meant saving up for a seeminly endless time until we could afford it.

I get your point about increasing fees but lets be honest, there's always a chance a company will screw you over in ways you'd never have expected. latest example in my case would be apple. so really, when it's time to change, then change. or buy yourself that CS6 and keep it forever.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Why not keep the monthly payments but make it cheaper if you dont want all programs but only the production premium. Or let you run it on two computers at the same time atleast for rendering. Should be a few more options.
Anyway, cc works like before. Right now i just want the update thats coming. Was hoping they would release it at max.

 

[Mark Pavy]

Why not keep the monthly payments but make it cheaper if you dont want all programs but only the production premium. Or let you run it on two computers at the same time atleast for rendering. Should be a few more options.
Anyway, cc works like before. Right now i just want the update thats coming. Was hoping they would release it at max.

Can I use my software on two computers?



If you own, or are the primary user of, a single-user or volume license Adobe product that is installed on a computer at work, you can also install and use the software on one secondary computer of the same platform at home or on a portable computer. However, you may not run the software simultaneously on both the primary and secondary computers.
No more than one user can use a single-user license Adobe product.
Note: AVL customers have to buy two different licenses to use both operating systems, even if they have two different computers. They can only use the same license on another computer (not simultaneously) with the same platform at home.
For more information regarding Adobe's activation policy, including recent changes, see the Product Activation FAQ.


Maybe Adobe can clarify this.

 

[Stephan Meier]

Well, a closer look into their licensing terms would make sense anyway:

http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20130508_1a-Adobe-legal-agreement.html

 

[Mike Smith]

um no, that's not what I said. 49€ or whatever it is, we can pay that easily. but when you're looking into buying a handfull of licences for the full suite all AT ONCE, to us that meant saving up for a seeminly endless time until we could afford it.

I get your point about increasing fees but lets be honest, there's always a chance a company will screw you over in ways you'd never have expected. latest example in my case would be apple. so really, when it's time to change, then change. or buy yourself that CS6 and keep it forever.

If I misunderstood what you said, then I take it back. But it still sounds above like you are saying that you do not own the software and have only rented it. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. But the argument in this thread is about how current owners are being shafted after helping make the one-time underdog NLE manufacturer one of the most successful. It's not the recent cloud stuff that did that. It was hard work by Adobe engineers that listened to people on forums like this, gave us what we wanted and overtook their rivals. But now they've arrived, we're being given the middle finger by their CEO. For those that are new to Adobe and are only renting, I'm sure they're quite happy. For now... Rent to own is quite popular. Own to rent is not. Here we're no longer getting the choice.

As to getting CS6, I did already. And CS5.5. And CS5. And CS4. And CS3. And...

Assuming you own a Red camera and are in line for the Dragon upgrade, ask yourself how you'd feel if Red were to announce out of the blue that Dragon was a rental only. And it had to be connected to the Internet regularly to keep it going. That's about how this feels.

 

[Al Mooney]

Sorry Mike, but that isn't true. It's Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation. A company like us who distributes software like we do could not add features to a perpetual license for free. It's the law..

 

[Mike Smith]

Sorry Mike, but that isn't true. It's Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation. A company like us who distributes software like we do could not add features to a perpetual license for free. It's the law..

Where are you getting the "for free" bit from? Was that monopoly money I sent you at each upgrade? Where's the difference between paying rent once a year and upgrading one or two times a year from the revenue standpoint? How is it I can buy Windows software and they upgrade it for years on end without further payment? Are they contravening the Sarbanes Oxley legislation in doing that?

 

[Andy White]

I use Lightwave for a lot of CGI work. I purchase major versions when released, but get all updates for free (until the next release)... these small updates range from bug fixes right through to major new feature sets.

CS6 has updates too... are we now saying this is an unlawful practice (ie adding updates to a perpetual licence?).

Confused by this one now...

 

[shashbugu]

Its sad, Al Mooney is so not convincing it was sorrowful to watch him present the CS next Apps at NAB. Adobe will lose money so fast with tho subscription model, they'll raise the monthly prices within a year just to stay in business. There are many alternative apps, it baffles me why Adobe will give their competitors this much leeway to garner market share.
Like Al Mooney said, Adobe has been way too slow to bring PPro up to professional speed. I personally evangelized for 5 years hoping a real color correction engine would be added to premiere. I advocated that Adobe bought Speedgrade which they did, but after purchasing Speedgrade, the software which used to be very stable, became buggy. Adobe as a company owns some really great technologies which they have in PS, Lightroom, and AE. they could easily have converged the best color tools from those Apps into Speedgrade, but "pooof" they don't. They told us speedgrade was still in its infancy, one year later you still can't import a mere xml into the product, instead they give to the lumetri engine as a plugin. A plugin where you can't really even use the Speedgrade tools on, except that you can apply a preset like its friggin Adobe Elements. Hopefully you don't have to subscribe to Elements to use it (lol).

I'm not going to pay a monthly subscription for an NLE which is far from being the best on the Market. The only tools best in class are Photoshop, Lightroom, Acrobat, AE and Fireworks.
Audition is not an industry favorite
Encore can't even encode and burn a sharp DVD
Quark-express still trumps Indesign
There are many alternative apps to dreamweaver
Apple Killed Flash
Redgiant's Bullet, tweak, Shotput pro, CatDv, Pomfort, etc all Spit on Prelude.
Speedgrade iss buggy and can't compare in features to Baselight, Resolve, Redgiant Looks, lustre Smoke or evn Apple Color
AE is no NUKe, or fusion or Smoke
Media encoder is not as good as Squeeze
Bridge is a bridge to nowhere

 

[Mike Harrington]

this looks like a money grab....

no incentive to continue developing products if you have users locked into contracts...we are at the whim of the kind hearts and budgets of the product managers...
CS6 epic footage was only functional using a labs plugin until just recently....can we expect the year long delay for dragon footage as well?
Just announce the intent...no need to follow through anymore

I have fusion....dvd creation software is cheap, lightworks is an alternative, current versions of photoshop and audition will work fine for years

i would have upgraded my current version...or even subscribed to the CC....but without a choice, a slap in the face to people who have upgraded since cs2....

I may look elsewhere....

I have done it before...avid DV, pinnacle Liquid, Media composer...takes maybe a month to get a handle on a new piece of software...

Adobe was maybe 6 months to a year from outright owning the market....and then they pull this?

For the adobe representatives here, I realize this is beyond your control.....just be sure to let your superiors know the tone of the existing customers...

 

[Taylor F.]

Sorry Mike, but that isn't true. It's Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation. A company like us who distributes software like we do could not add features to a perpetual license for free. It's the law..

I think Mike Smith is right. If the executives at Adobe were half as creative as their engineers, I'm sure they could have figured out a way around this that would have been both legal and effective. How about charging $1 to perpetual license holders for updates that contain new features? (in addition to the annual update fee, of course)

As-is, this new arrangement is unpalatable to me, as a Production Premium customer. If there was a CC package that included the same PP apps for the same annual cost as the upgrade, I would consider it, despite the insipid concept of renting rather than owning software.

 

[shashbugu]

For the adobe representatives here, I realize this is beyond your control.....just be sure to let your superiors know the tone of the existing customers...

I feel bad for Dave,


he has listened to us, helped us with Red issues etc. Since he's in San Diego, maybe Red should offer him a Job to continue building red plugin upgrade for Legacy programs. He deserves a more creative job.