Adobe Abandons Creative Suite, Announces Full Switch to Creative Cloud

[Ben Scott]

OOoh that's a good line Hrvoje. I'm stealing that!

Sorry, of course I mean renting that on a monthly basis.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

I gotta say I don't buy the regular upgrades explanation. There's no reason that couldn't be done while have perpetual licenses. As long as there's no boxed version of the product on DVD, there's absolutely no reason why Adobe couldn't release an update any time they want with minimal cost to Adobe (no manufacturing of packaging or discs), whether its via a CC subscription version or regular perpetual license version. Adobe promised special updates ever since CC came out a year ago and there's been no special updates that the non-CC version didn't get. Adobe is just making up excuses for this new model.

Apple has no issues releasing major updates to FCPX on a regular basis without having a subscription model. Blackmagic provides completely free major upgrades to DaVinci Resolve.

The real reason for this is to bring more regular revenue in from customers. Beyond that, there's really no other reason for it.

I agree - Adobe has always been rubbish at upgrading their products. I've lost count of how many bugs have caused problems for me which could have been fixed in a point release, but they wait until the next major release. Seriously, you'd be lucky to get one or two point release updates for some programs... Most other companies would have released free maintenance point upgrades.

This was especially the case with CS5.5, which hardly had enough in it to justify it being a major paid update... It's just how they rolled - they didn't need to switch to a subscription model, they just needed to embrace online updates like most other software companies do...

 

[Noel R.]

Good news is that Adobe will give us regular updates, most you will not need. Bad news is that you have to pay Adobe and meet their price demands.....for the rest of your life. Doesn't seem like a fair trade. Sorry.

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

I think creative cloud with its subscription based payment is excellent! we're only a small company but still need a bunch of licenses which wasnt always easy to afford back in the old days. now its just all hassle free.

 

[Leland Haushalter]

It makes sense for larger software bundles such as an Adobe package, but for smaller software like Shotputpro I still prefer an owned license.

 

[Mike Smith]

I think creative cloud with its subscription based payment is excellent! we're only a small company but still need a bunch of licenses which wasnt always easy to afford back in the old days. now its just all hassle free.

That's because, in your own words, you've never owned the software. So you get in for the monthly rental. Many here have spent thousands as loyal customers only to get told "FU", you will come on board our new plan or run with outdated software. No ramping this in. They even admitted a few posts back that they intend to continue to sell CS6 without further updates!

If this model is a success, the first time they add $5/month to their rental, Wall Street will love them. It won't take long before they decide they need to add another $5/month. Then $10. The magic for Adobe is, they no longer need to do anything to the software to keep charging for it. They can really unload their engineering "dead weight". Even you all-time renters might start to realize that you don't own any of your creative work since it's useless without Adobe's increasingly more expensive rented software.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

I think that what I am going to do is keep going with premiere pro in CC for now but will develop some serious skills in another NLE just as a backup in case Adobe start to become unpleasantly avaricious.

 

[Andy White]

I suppose this will cause a lot of people to start looking at the remaining packages that use existing purchase options that are out there... ie an outright purchase.

Basically, Adobe's presumption is that everyone upgrades at each new version... and that's the logic applied to the rolling monthly subscription model. But it's really flawed logic... but as the Adobe people have said here. there will be no policy change and no more perpetual licencing. At least they're unequivocal in that.

Such a shame as Premier was shaping up to be one of the best tools for RED/r3d no transcode/raw workflow.

So there's Lightworks, Sony Vegas Pro & Edius that offer RED support...

Well, I suppose the post production landscape looks like it'll shift and change every 12-18 months now. Bit of a pain really.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Basically, Adobe's presumption is that everyone upgrades at each new version... and that's the logic applied to the rolling monthly subscription model. But it's really flawed logic...

Perhaps they understand that there are many like me who skip a release and this is their attempt to get into the pockets of those people on a regular basis.

 

[Elsie N]

I get it that up-to-the-minute updates are regulated by some law or another and that this may be a way for Adobe to make timely updates and not go afoul of that law. On the other hand, I think not allowing a user to "freeze" and keep their software active if an entity has to drop their subscription for some reason or another is just wrong. Even requiring a returning subscriber to pay a penalty up front to be re-instated would be a fair and equitable thing, IMO.

But on the financial side of this from my perspective, a plan that would have an initial low subscriber fee for one app, then an escalating fee for each app downloaded... well, that means we are paying for what we get and use rather than subsidizing some power user who gets access to all apps for the same fee I'm paying.

 

[Brian Merlen]

As stated in our FAQ's we will continue to sell CS6 but new feature development will take place in Premiere Pro CC

Cheers
Dave

Well thanks for clarifying that for me! Its great that you at least let us know ahead of time so we can plan for if we will go with the subscription pricing or not...

 

[Paul Watt]

Lets call a spade a spade here................

This whole exercise has been about Adobe increasing cash flow ..........exponentially...this is not about improving the customer experience of using Adobe. This is about improving your bottom line it is not about improving our bottom line. Don't trying to sell this as a benefit to clients because its marketing hype pure a simple. Note the word "client" .....we are not customers now, we are now "clients" who can cancel thier subscription at our whim.

At no stage has there been announcements about improving existing functionality for the client. What about the "hang' in Premier on the timeline, what about the lack of functionality between SG & Premier, what about the worlds longest wait getting files into SG from premier, what about the color corrector from hell that resides within Premier, what about the photoshop bug that saves PNG files as Jpegs or reads same, what about the worlds most primitive titling tool, what about no soft edge masking, what about a stunted interface between R3D files & Premier, what about your appalling call centre customer handling skills what about treating these MAJOR bugs before renting it out to clients.

No one disputes you're a business & your company is entitled to treat customers or should I say "clients", as you see fit whilst profiting from the experience . But I find it laughable how you denigrated Apple for treating customers so appallingly a few years ago & now are practising those very same techniques on your client base.

I want to know when the next CLIENT UPDATE IS DUE which will fix the above problems & not the update that fixes your problems .

I'm waiting & feeling whimsical....

Nailed it!

 

[Brian Robbins]

I've been with Adobe since CS2 but this is the end of the line.

 

[Johnny Friday]

This is a deal breaker for me as a shooter that occasionally uses Premier/AE and photoshop. I update ONLY when i have a need. Now if on the other hand you charged me by the hour, i might be far better off. But there are times when i use fCP7, FCPx and Premier based on the job i'm preforming...but i might not touch Premier for one or two or even three months...so you took a guy like me right out of the equation. I think it's a bad choice to go full subscription based via the cloud. I'm left with no alternative but to give up my Adobe product and keep my CS 6 and live with it....but as little as i use the software, i won't be subscribing to a monthly rental of the software. Not sure either how you get other part timers to buy into a monthly subscription. I see this as a colossal mistake.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Thinking out loud here....putting aside any perceived agendas, conspiracies and looking at this strictly from a numbers game.

Let's take Joe the graphic designer who uses Adobe products as his prime tools for getting work done. Joe does pretty well and makes about $90k a year. With this new subscription based platform Joe must decide whether he will stay on the legacy software or move to the cloud. At minimum it's $360 year as an existing customer. Part of which is a tax write off. He now has access to other tools he's never had in his Adobe bundles before. Maybe these allow him to expand into other revenue streams. He has the option of updating at any time as new features are introduced that suit his needs. As someone making a living with these tools, the numbers are not that daunting. Now if Joe is the type who only does upgrades every two to three years, then perhaps this new model is more expensive than he would like and perhaps he is not thrilled with having the choice taken away eventually. What he has to look at is what he gains vs what he loses. Joe likes to take his work with him. He'll work while riding the train. Sometimes he goes to a vacation home in the deep woods of Maine to work without distractions. Internet connection is not very good, sometimes doesn't work at all. Joe needs to be assured he will always have access to his software during those times he is without Internet. In theory, creative cloud is meant to work that way to a point. As Joe weighs all the pros and cons, one of the things that he keeps coming back to is ownership. The money part is less of an issue for Joe. He is able to justify the cost. It's the idea that you don't own it which is what feels alien to Joe. Staring at several boxes of Adobe software on his shelf, he realizes he will be losing the tangible product that he can simply pull off the shelf and install at will without anyone's permission. He owns it. Ownership is power. But then something occurs to him. Even that product he owns needs to be activated. And the way he has done that - through the Internet.

Joe realizes that once he gets past the ownership conundrum it really comes down to how to ensure that he will have access to his tools 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. That's how he makes a living. These are the tools he needs and knows how to use them incredibly well. Updates, cloud storage, even full access to other useful tools will mean nothing if he loses time by getting locked out of his software. Joe looks to Adobe and asks "Can you assure me that I will be running these apps 24/7 without interruption? If we have a storm that takes out Internet for several days, can I be assured I'll be able to run these apps?" Adobe has assured him that this will be the case by offering grace periods and also extended licensing. So, until they prove otherwise, Joe has to decide whether to take that leap of faith and trust the company that has helped him build a career.

I use this example because I think for anyone making a significant enough amount of money using Adobe products, the money per year is trivial, especially if spread out monthly. I really think the biggest issue for most will be control. Lack of ownership, fear of being locked out, fear of losing legacy support, fear of excessive price increases in the future, fear of stagnation, fear of the unknown, etc. It will be in Adobe's court to address these fears and to give their customers confidence in the cloud approach. I'm sure they expect some collateral damage at the beginning. They know they will lose some of you. I would have to guess that the idea is that with a proven track record they will win some of you back. If it turns out to be a large failure somehow, then the naysayers get to say I told you so. And Adobe goes back to the drawing board. If I had to place my bets, I'd say that people will eventually get accustomed to this model and will accept it unless it is abused. Time will tell.

 

[Mike Smith]

I have listened to this interview. (Thanks Jeff for sharing the link). I can't resist to share my thoughts. I think he presents this CC idea not very well. But make your own picture about. I try to focus on numbers only...



He was asked why they fired 750 people based on changing the model, and with no sympathy showing, his next sentence "...we as a company fire on all cylinders". Maybe it's me, but that sounded very weird in my ears.

They got 0.5m subscribers so far, from 10m customers. In statistic we cut the upper and lower 5% normally to get extreme values out of the picture. But Adobe is confident that 5% is evidence enough to change it for everyone.

The CEO assumes to have 4m customers connected in the cloud very soon (2015). What will the rest -- the 6m do? It is clear, based on his own numbers, that he doesn't even think that the majority will join in the next two years. So 60% of the customers will get not the current software, they will be not part of it. Over half of the customers are left behind, according to his numbers: Is this listening to customers?



The stock market, as everyone knows, is positive when fantasy is in the game, with a subscription model that fantasy is gone, if I go with his numbers. I wouldn't invest in "Adobe-Stocks" these days.

I have used mostly his numbers here, listen to the interview and perhaps you understand that differently.

Interesting numbers Dr. Sassi! I notice that, since Monday, Adobe's stock (symbol ADBE) has dropped significantly. When was it that Adobe announced this again? ;-)

 

[Jaime Vallés]

As a graphic designer and filmmaker, the cloud subscription makes very good financial sense to me. I regularly use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Premiere, Encore, After Effects, and Lightroom. Paying only $600 a year for all of those is a steal. Purchasing the full, perpetual license of Master Collection runs $2500. That's more than 4 years worth of subscriptions. I figure I would want to upgrade more often than once every 4 years, so I'm already saving money with the subscription.

If you only use Photoshop, or Premiere, then the finances start to make less sense. But for someone that uses almost all the programs included, it's one heck of a bargain. Plus, can you say tax write-off?

 

[Mike Smith]

As a graphic designer and filmmaker, the cloud subscription makes very good financial sense to me. I regularly use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Premiere, Encore, After Effects, and Lightroom. Paying only $600 a year for all of those is a steal. Purchasing the full, perpetual license of Master Collection runs $2500. That's more than 4 years worth of subscriptions. I figure I would want to upgrade more often than once every 4 years, so I'm already saving money with the subscription.

If you only use Photoshop, or Premiere, then the finances start to make less sense. But for someone that uses almost all the programs included, it's one heck of a bargain. Plus, can you say tax write-off?

Yes, I can say tax write-off. This has come up a few times here. You can write off bought software just as easily. Only very expensive capital equipment has to be written off over more than one year.

 

[Will Keir]

Mooney,

What about looking into some US based tech support. This over seas none sense is useless.

Hi Everyone

I'm Al, the Adobe Premiere Pro Product Manager. I'm new to this forum (hi!) but I wanted to introduce myself and try to clarify some points.

Historically, Adobe has run on a 12-18 month release cycle, and licenses were perpetual. This meant that, were we to (for example) release a new product in May, if we were to hear from the community in June that there was an absolutely critical feature that we were lacking, the earliest we could provide customers with that feature would be the following May. This is not an internal Adobe thing, it's due to very limiting and strict revenue recognition laws which prevent the addition of new features to perpetual license customers at zero cost.

The Creative Cloud model changes all this. Because it's a subscription system, we are going to be able to add new features to the software much more regularly than the 12-18 month release cycle, and I predict you'll start seeing this change pretty soon. This, I believe, provides significant added value to Creative Cloud when compared to the previous model. Creative Cloud allows us to much more aggressively develop, and in these days of light-speed technological change, this will, I hope, be a great benefit. And note that you can have your apps installed on two separate machines, even one Mac and one PC, and use the apps on both.

I'd also like to dispel a couple of misconceptions. Firstly, this is not some kind of hosted service. These are the same applications, installed locally, that you would have got if we sold them on a DVD. The only difference is that you install them via a download. We are not hosting your files (unless you want us to!). Secondly, you do not need to be permanently connected to the internet. If you're on a monthly subscription, there is a mandatory check-in every 30 days to check you've paid, and there is a 7-day grace period if you haven't. If you buy a year in advance, that check-in period is 180 days.

Regarding pricing, we've pitched it at a point where the majority of users who upgrade regularly are likely to be paying less, for more frequent updates, access to all of our apps, and the CC community. If you use the special offer we have currently, you can get all of what would have been 'Master Collection' for 30 dollars US a month.

There is a very thorough FAQ on our site too, which may have been linked to previously, but just for the record: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.edu.html

I realize that this is a big change, and I'm sure that some of you feel strongly enough to go elsewhere, but i hope this at least clarifies some points. I'll hang around this thread over the next days, so if you have questions feel free to ask them.

thanks
al.

 

[Bud Anderson]

Pretty clear by now that Adobe has pissed off hundreds, if not thousands, of its customers with their latest move. Just Like Apple did before them. Nice going guys.

But perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.

Both of these companies have clarified, as never before, the need for an NLE system that is stable, consistent, dependable and specifically tailored to meet the needs of the thousands of professional, amateur and student owners/users/renters of Reds, Epics and Scarlets.

Perhaps all of this commotion has awakened the sleeping tiger that dwells among these pages. I hear he can be pretty innovative.

Let's all hope so.

In other words Jim, if you guys can come up with a RED-based NLE, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.