Adobe Abandons Creative Suite, Announces Full Switch to Creative Cloud

[shashbugu]

Sorry Mike, but that isn't true. It's Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation. A company like us who distributes software like we do could not add features to a perpetual license for free. It's the law..

I think the Law should have your CEO arrested for charging an upgrade fee from CS5 to CS5.5

 

[Mike Harrington]

I feel bad for Dave,


he has listened to us, helped us with Red issues etc. Since he's in San Diego, maybe Red should offer him a Job to continue building red plugin upgrade for Legacy programs. He deserves a more creative job.

Ya it's like yelling at the customer support people.....
its not there choice, decision, or problem...

so adobe guys.....
please dont take the rants personally...you have been very helpful and we appreciate your presence here


now on the contract terms for CC we have this little gem

6.5 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.

unlikely scenario...but adobe can pull the plug on your favourite app without notice...well actually there was adobe review, adobe Ultra, soundbooth, Adobe Debut, Adobe Collage, Adobe Proto, acrobat x suite and the list goes on and on
so maybe not that unlikely....
maybe speedgrade becomes too big a hassle to maintain
poof it disappears.....sorry...heres a nifty flash app to replace it (which we will kill in 18 months)

 

[Mike Smith]

I feel bad for Dave,


he has listened to us, helped us with Red issues etc. Since he's in San Diego, maybe Red should offer him a Job to continue building red plugin upgrade for Legacy programs. He deserves a more creative job.

Agreed. Dave, and a few others that have shown up here from time to time, have been very helpful. They gave me cause to champion Adobe, especially PPro which was considered a "toy" NLE by many until quite recently. It felt good to see my faith in it well founded - until now...

 

[Curtis Stanton]

Just to clarify for myself my understanding of the new Adobe model--in my own terms: Thinking of the Adobe CC model as a traditional lease seems to me to be a fallacy. If I lease office space, the terms, conditions and cost are spelled out for the duration of the lease. If any of these change at the end of the lease period I can pack up my belongings and move to a new office space. With the Adobe model, if I want to keep and use my possessions created during my Adobe tenancy and on which my business depends, I have to lease Adobe office space. From my perspective, Adobe has effectively become a monopoly.

So, a utility model might be more accurate. Except that monopoly services, tolerated by government, such as gas and electricity are subject to oversight and regulation. Actually, as a part time user, I might prefer the utility model if I only had to pay for the services that I used for the period that I used them. Except, to come full circle, I would be extremely hesitant to participate in an unregulated monopoly or utility. Especially a new form of monopoly, unrecognized in law.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Yes to the Adobe Guys on the forum thankyou...we don't blame you for the decision. We understand it wasn't your decision to make.

I think what annoys most isn't the subscription fee ......but the concept of "no legacy projects" because once your out of Adobe all previous work becomes inert. Surely there could be a way of addressing this major issue by say charging a "resurrection fee' (say 2months rental) for when a job needs to be reworked on after a year or so out of the Adobe system. Whilst in practise this might not seem logical with current "cloud thinking" it would reinforce the feeling that yes Adobe can service me the client even if I drop out. If Adobe was shrewd I believe this could also be used to keep previous users on onside & would encourage current users to give it go .

Everyone wins....or is it all a one way street ?

 

[shashbugu]

Or maybe, we're all short sighted. One day we may look back and smile at our outrage at Adobe. We might all be forced to and accept the cloud subscription module. Who knows we might like it.

Never say Never. As of today Adobe has made a grave mistake. Tomorrow we might think it was a super smart move.

 

[Mike Smith]

Or maybe, we're all short sighted. One day we may look back and smile at our outrage at Adobe. We might all be forced to and accept the cloud subscription module. Who knows we might like it.

Never say Never. As of today Adobe has made a grave mistake. Tomorrow we might think it was a super smart move.

Never! ;-)

It is a smart move - for Adobe. At least if they're right about being able to bully everyone on board. It isn't looking too good for that so far though. In 6-12 months, when new rental customers start to dry up, and all their long-term customers have moved on, they may not think it was so smart, and fire their CEO. But the damage will have been done. Not only will no-one trust them, but they'll not be able to get back those hundreds of folks they've fired to get back on track.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

I think the Law should have your CEO arrested for charging an upgrade fee from CS5 to CS5.5

Yeah, that is constructive.

Really guys?

 

[Scott Crawley]

So, a utility model might be more accurate. Except that monopoly services, tolerated by government, such as gas and electricity are subject to oversight and regulation. Actually, as a part time user, I might prefer the utility model if I only had to pay for the services that I used for the period that I used them. Except, to come full circle, I would be extremely hesitant to participate in an unregulated monopoly or utility. Especially a new form of monopoly, unrecognized in law.

A utility is charging you for consumables. They are actually generating the power, or clarifying the water, etc. and that production costs money. They aren't sitting back on existing IP and charging you continually for access to it. These are apples and oranges IMO.

 

[David McGavran]

I feel bad for Dave,


he has listened to us, helped us with Red issues etc. Since he's in San Diego, maybe Red should offer him a Job to continue building red plugin upgrade for Legacy programs. He deserves a more creative job.

I appreciate your concern, really I do I know the Premiere team continues to work really hard making a great product that will bring joy to the people on this board. Premiere Pro CC as the other versions is just the beginning of the great stuff to come. I have never been prouder to work on this product and I will continue to work really hard on it. From my point of view I can make you guys happier than ever with this model as we can finally role out fixes when it makes sense to our users. That really excites me. I understand the frustration that people feel I really do. However, I ask that you just take a few minutes to really understand what is going on and then make the decision that is right for you and/or your company. If you ask questions that we can answer we will, if you vent we will listen. That is what our team has always done. The people on the Premiere team are as motivated as any people I have ever worked with. We welcome your feedback and comments as always.

Thanks

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

Yes to the Adobe Guys on the forum thankyou...we don't blame you for the decision. We understand it wasn't your decision to make.

I think what annoys most isn't the subscription fee ......but the concept of "no legacy projects" because once your out of Adobe all previous work becomes inert. Surely there could be a way of addressing this major issue by say charging a "resurrection fee' (say 2months rental) for when a job needs to be reworked on after a year or so out of the Adobe system. Whilst in practise this might not seem logical with current "cloud thinking" it would reinforce the feeling that yes Adobe can service me the client even if I drop out. If Adobe was shrewd I believe this could also be used to keep previous users on onside & would encourage current users to give it go .

Everyone wins....or is it all a one way street ?

This is exactly what we offer. Work on a project for 2 years with CC. Take 2 years off, come back and rent CC for 1 month to get the project open. Or export to one of the independent standard formats (XML, AAF etc). The Premiere Pro team has never championed lock in. We work with open codecs, open interchange formats, we have an open plugin model, etc...

Cheers

Dave

 

[John Bellari]

I appreciate your concern, really I do I know the Premiere team continues to work really hard making a great product that will bring joy to the people on this board. Premiere Pro CC as the other versions is just the beginning of the great stuff to come. I have never been prouder to work on this product and I will continue to work really hard on it. From my point of view I can make you guys happier than ever with this model as we can finally role out fixes when it makes sense to our users. That really excites me. I understand the frustration that people feel I really do. However, I ask that you just take a few minutes to really understand what is going on and then make the decision that is right for you and/or your company. If you ask questions that we can answer we will, if you vent we will listen. That is what our team has always done. The people on the Premiere team are as motivated as any people I have ever worked with. We welcome your feedback and comments as always.

Thanks

Dave

Hi David,

can you provide a Real-world spec list of all tested configurations of PC's and their specs for realtime editing 5K Red RAW footage with Premiere Pro CC and After Effects, especially for versions CS 5.5 and 6?

Adobe's tech support is truly atrocious at this point, and I haven't had a real answer in weeks...

 

[Mike Halper]

Sorry Mike, but that isn't true. It's Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation. A company like us who distributes software like we do could not add features to a perpetual license for free. It's the law..

Then how does Blackmagic Design release major update after major update for Resolve for free? How does Apple release major update after major update for FCPX for free? Plenty of iOS apps have received constant significant updates without needing to pay for the app again to get those updates. It looks to me like Adobe is making stuff up or interpreting things in its own way to justify renting software. Seriously.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Thanks for stopping by and chiming in, David. We all appreciate the direct line of communication.

I've been using Creative Cloud since it was introduced, and I love it. Full access to the entire Master Collection for only $50/month is a bargain for me, because I actually use most of the programs included (as a graphic designer and filmmaker) and it has given me the opportunity to try new software that I normally wouldn't have used without it being bundled (such as Muse, which is great). I've used my laptop without an internet connection for weeks while running Photoshop, etc. without a hitch.

However, I do understand that there are many people that don't need all the programs in the Master Collection, so for those folks the pricing issue becomes more difficult. Perhaps something to consider is having several pricing tiers, depending on how many programs the person signs up for? So, the equivalent of the Production Suite would run $30/month, whereas the Master Collection runs $50/month. Or something like that.

Anyway, for $600 a year I get to use a TON of top-of-the-line software for my business. For me, that's a huge savings compared to purchasing the full Master Collection license.

 

[David McGavran]

Hi David,

can you provide a Real-world spec list of all tested configurations of PC's and their specs for realtime editing 5K Red RAW footage with Premiere Pro CC and After Effects, especially for versions CS 5.5 and 6?

Adobe's tech support is truly atrocious at this point, and I haven't had a real answer in weeks...

RED sells a great config But in general. If you want full res 5k you need 2 rockets or (I think) one of the new rockets. If you want 1/4 res you just need a good machine. Focus on 16 - 32 gigs of ram and one of our certified GPU cards. Al just posted a bunch on the premiere pro blog.

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/

Cheers

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

Then how does Blackmagic Design release major update after major update for Resolve for free? How does Apple release major update after major update for FCPX for free? Plenty of iOS apps have received constant significant updates without needing to pay for the app again to get those updates. It looks to me like Adobe is making stuff up or interpreting things in its own way to justify renting software. Seriously.

Remember I am an engineer not a business guy. But if you are curious google deferred revenue reporting which is what apple does. vs Sarbanes Oxley revenue recognition legislation which is what Al mentioned here. Interesting stuff in there. Not sure about Blackmagic.
Cheers
Dave

 

[Bruce Allen]

This is exactly what we offer. Work on a project for 2 years with CC. Take 2 years off, come back and rent CC for 1 month to get the project open. Or export to one of the independent standard formats (XML, AAF etc). The Premiere Pro team has never championed lock in. We work with open codecs, open interchange formats, we have an open plugin model, etc...

So will Premiere CS6 be able to load a future Premiere CC project, with bins and sequences intact?

Also, how about After Effects, Illustrator, Photoshop, Audition and Lightroom?

This is the beauty of Media Composer and Pro Tools for me: you can load up a current project using an ancient version of Media Composer, and still work perfectly fine. Then save your project and load back into the new version of Media Composer without destroying everything.

Same with Maya: you can load a Maya 2013 project in Maya 2012 by just telling it to ignore version. Also Cinema 4D. I can load something made in R14 into R12 no problem.

Adobe has historically been more concerned about preventing you from loading the file unless you have the current version of the app, so you can understand our concern, right?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[David McGavran]

Thanks for stopping by and chiming in, David. We all appreciate the direct line of communication.

I've been using Creative Cloud since it was introduced, and I love it. Full access to the entire Master Collection for only $50/month is a bargain for me, because I actually use most of the programs included (as a graphic designer and filmmaker) and it has given me the opportunity to try new software that I normally wouldn't have used without it being bundled (such as Muse, which is great). I've used my laptop without an internet connection for weeks while running Photoshop, etc. without a hitch.

However, I do understand that there are many people that don't need all the programs in the Master Collection, so for those folks the pricing issue becomes more difficult. Perhaps something to consider is having several pricing tiers, depending on how many programs the person signs up for? So, the equivalent of the Production Suite would run $30/month, whereas the Master Collection runs $50/month. Or something like that.

Anyway, for $600 a year I get to use a TON of top-of-the-line software for my business. For me, that's a huge savings compared to purchasing the full Master Collection license.

I appreciate the desire for even more options. I assure you Adobe has heard the feedback. At any rate $20 for one product and $50 for the suite is a good deal. Also we have 30 day trials and the first year special so people can try stuff before making a decision.

Cheers

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

So will Premiere CS6 be able to load a future Premiere CC project, with bins and sequences intact?

Also, how about After Effects, Illustrator, Photoshop, Audition and Lightroom?

This is the beauty of Media Composer and Pro Tools for me: you can load up a current project using an ancient version of Media Composer, and still work perfectly fine. Then save your project and load back into the new version of Media Composer without destroying everything.

Same with Maya: you can load a Maya 2013 project in Maya 2012 by just telling it to ignore version. Also Cinema 4D. I can load something made in R14 into R12 no problem.

Adobe has historically been more concerned about preventing you from loading the file unless you have the current version of the app, so you can understand our concern, right?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

After Effects has this feature. It isn't about lock in in this case. It is about testing resources. It is a lot of work to add new features and make sure the project opens in old versions. That is what is nice about XML/AAF as they are stable exchange formats. If u export an xml of our project you will get all the bins etc open in the old version. Not sure about Lightroom but Photoshop has compatibility modes for sure.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Jeff Whitehurst]

Iʻm with you guys on sympathy for the Adobe Reps, but Iʻm not buying the damage control. Again, what about the existing users? If a customer bought the CS6 Master Collection one year ago (or today) for $2599, theyʻll need to roll that loss into any realistic calculations.

To continue using the same suite they bought with CS6 MC, thatʻs $2599 divided by number of months used + Lease Contract Cost (intro rate, after that higher) + Security of Permanent Ownership

Letʻs say 3 customers have these circumstances over a 24 month period beginning with the release of CS6 May 2012, yet all for whatever reason arenʻt ready to buy anything new or renew their contract in June 2014

Existing CS6 Owner who doesnʻt subscribe = In two years paid $2599 ($108.29/month) still owns CS6, can still open/create files and work

Existing CS6 Owner who does subscribe now = In two years paid $2827 ($117.79/month) forfeited ownership, canʻt open/create files and cannot work

Current CC customer = In two years paid $1176 ($49/month), owns nothing, canʻt open/create files and cannot work

What I canʻt forgive is that Adobe is making no real effort to satisfy their existing license holders. Temporary token discounts on the annual contract? To give up ownership of a very pricey product, in exchange for a questionable future for both the software and the company?

Adobe should be offering a buyout, instead they are demanding their loyal customers shoulder the bulk of the financial consequences of Adobeʻs decision. Thatʻs why the most of the people weʻre seeing that like this new model are new customers, they donʻt have thousands on the line.