Adobe Abandons Creative Suite, Announces Full Switch to Creative Cloud

[Martin Weiss]

I work for the national library here in Norway. Data safety is of paramount concern, and like Dave and many others, our production machines are not connected to the internet. Ever.

Is there a low maintenance option that would allow us to use those machines with Adobe's new licensing system?

Last and least, is there a way to pay the yearly license fee without a credit card, preferably by getting billed ahead of time?

 

[David McGavran]

Thank you for the reply David, and I'm glad Al updated that list as it was not available even a day ago.
Realtime editing of Red RAW has been listed since CS 5.0, yet generic specs which mostly don't work very well have been listed.
I am still not understanding the real world configuration required for realtime editing & compositing Red 5K RAW- simply a 2GB GPU and 2GB RAM/Core?. Doesn't core speed matter and number of cores, what about 1066MHz vs 1600MHz memory...

ex:
If you have an HP Z820 and are running Premiere Pro and After Effects with 5K RAW, what ...
CPU = what GHz s required (ex: XEON with as low as 1.8GHz but QUAD core up to as high as 3.3GHz)
RAM = 16 vs 32 vs 64 GB ... Huge price difference, what does every extra 16GB RAM gain you
GPU = 1 GB DDR5 not enough for 5K? does 2GB DDR3 or DDR5 handle everything or do you need more/faster than 2GB DDR3 for big project files (ex: GTX Titan with 6GB and over 2000 CUDA cores vs Quadro K2000 only 2GB and 384 CUDA cores)
Hard Drives and controller tested: two 7200 rpm in RAID 0 is no way fast enough to edit 5K RAW from my experience so far

BOTTOM LINE: What are the real setups actually used for testing on MAC & PC, and why aren't those configurations widely available
to your own technical support or publicly available?

It is a little tricky as there are so many options out there However, if you get any of the new Z820's and a recommended graphic card plus say 16 gigs. You will have no problem editing 5k at 1/4 res. Add a rocket for 1/2 res or two for full res.

I do 1/8 res 5k editing easily on my retina macbook pro. That is the nice thing about Red Raw is that if your machine isn't fast enough you can do partial decodes and still get great quality.

Cheers

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

I work for the national library here in Norway. Data safety is of paramount concern, and like Dave and many others, our production machines are not connected to the internet. Ever.

Is there a low maintenance option that would allow us to use those machines with Adobe's new licensing system?

Last and least, is there a way to pay the yearly license fee without a credit card, preferably by getting billed ahead of time?

Send me a private message and I will hook you up with our Biz dev guy in Norway.

Cheers

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

Two Questions please.

1. We use laptops in the field, there is no internet connection fro many months in our remote work. if we are away in the field for say 12 months and can be up to 24 months, how do we licence software ?

2. In many facilites the machines do not connect to the internet for many reasons. Updates are done viaUSB sticks or portable disks. This could be a small network say 4 to 8 machines or very large 10's of machines. Ive read the FAQ's. How do we licence machines ?

thanks,

So for year subscriptions there is something like a 99 day grace period before you need to have it ping the network. There are other options if you go teams or enterprise license. I would call your local adobe reseller, they can help answer those specific questions.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

If I misunderstood what you said, then I take it back. But it still sounds above like you are saying that you do not own the software and have only rented it. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. But the argument in this thread is about how current owners are being shafted after helping make the one-time underdog NLE manufacturer one of the most successful. It's not the recent cloud stuff that did that. It was hard work by Adobe engineers that listened to people on forums like this, gave us what we wanted and overtook their rivals. But now they've arrived, we're being given the middle finger by their CEO. For those that are new to Adobe and are only renting, I'm sure they're quite happy. For now... Rent to own is quite popular. Own to rent is not. Here we're no longer getting the choice.

As to getting CS6, I did already. And CS5.5. And CS5. And CS4. And CS3. And...

Assuming you own a Red camera and are in line for the Dragon upgrade, ask yourself how you'd feel if Red were to announce out of the blue that Dragon was a rental only. And it had to be connected to the Internet regularly to keep it going. That's about how this feels.

I still don't see how we're being "given the middle finger by their CEO". I for myself am perfectly happy with CC. premiere still does it for me (mostly anyways). there are solutions for the issue with the software having to connect to the internet every now and then, as quoted by adobe. I can see, however, how this could become an issue for, for example, documentary film makers who spend long periods out in the wild.

lastly, I don't think your comparison isn't working. if red had a subscription model like adobe, we'd all buy a camera and then receive the latest models as soon as red releases them. but of course this wouldn't make any sense given that cameras are being used and abused and therefore lose value, whereas software doesn't.

 

[David McGavran]

Thanks For always being patient with us in our most frustrating times. Your reply is very heart warming, We'll give CC a chance. But I'll personally wait till others have tried it for a few months before I'll subscribe. I'll check out the 30 day demo.
My personal concern is not the subscription or cost of subscription, but rather the value for subscription.

I am very aware that adobe values my suggestions so here goes.
Times are changing really fast, the way in which we work today and the technology we use is very different. I do understand that from the point of view of a creative software engineer like yourself you want to be able to deliver solutions for the ever changing creative climate, but the last thing you want is to be bogged down by accounting and administrative or bueareaucratic Red-tape. Fair enough

1.Why are Prelude, PPro, and Media Encoder separate applications? Going forward should they really be?
2. Dynamic link has never ever worked as promised, Adobe should take a second look at this architecture redesign and re-engineer it. An Adobe timeline in any product should be seamlessly interoperable, thats what a dynamic link should be. with one click a PPRo timeline should open seamlessly in AE. in Another click that same time line should open in Audition, then Encore.
3. The lumetri color engine along with Speedgrade tools should in PreLude, PPRO, AE, ENCORE, PS and whatever new iteration you are developing.

1. They are separate applications because of the range of use. We have installations where there are say 500 journalists who don't need to have the complexity of Premiere using Prelude for logging and ingest. Then there are 100 editors who need the full premiere but don't manage the encoding side. Then there is a group of machines doing the encoding that use AME. Plus the 20 graphics guys using AE but don't want to learn Premiere. PPro has the full AME inside it if you don't queue and now in this release AE fully supports AME for background encoding. The video teams have really worked closely with some of the biggest broadcast companies in the world to make sure our tools fit the most workflows.

2. Now I am sad Being one of the original Dynamic Link engineers We continue to improve Dynamic Link. CC versions have a bunch of performance and stability improvements. We have great stuff in the pipe here.

3. We have now moved the Lumetri color engine into Premiere. That was the first step. To think we moved all of speedgrade into Mercury GPU in less than a year is quite a feat from the eng side. Just another step in the integration...

Cheers
Dave

 

[David McGavran]

I still don't see how we're being "given the middle finger by their CEO". I for myself am perfectly happy with CC. premiere still does it for me (mostly anyways). there are solutions for the issue with the software having to connect to the internet every now and then, as quoted by adobe. I can see, however, how this could become an issue for, for example, documentary film makers who spend long periods out in the wild.

lastly, I don't think your comparison isn't working. if red had a subscription model like adobe, we'd all buy a camera and then receive the latest models as soon as red releases them. but of course this wouldn't make any sense given that cameras are being used and abused and therefore lose value, whereas software doesn't.

I truly feel bad that you feel this way. Hopefully by the quality and new features of our apps and all the good stuff that is coming you will continue to create great creative stories with our products. That is what the product teams wish for most of all.

Our goal is to help you. So lets keep the feature requests coming and the conversation open.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

I truly feel bad that you feel this way. Hopefully by the quality and new features of our apps and all the good stuff that is coming you will continue to create great creative stories with our products. That is what the product teams wish for most of all.

Our goal is to help you. So lets keep the feature requests coming and the conversation open.

Cheers

Dave

Dave, I think you misunderstood me. I'm defending the subscription model. I'm quite happy with it and from what I've calculated it's also cheaper than buying a full suite given your usual product cycle.

But, while we're at it, there are a few things I'd LOVE to see changed at adobe:
- please re-eable the possibility to render previews using external devices such as the matrox mxo2. having no more option to use the matrox box to proccess the video preview really defies it's purpose. when editing native r3d in PP we have to set the playback to 1/4 resolution and having no independent control over the matrox connected preview monitor's resolution really sucks!!
- the customer service sucks, too, unfortunately. a while back we had an issue with oddly behaving audio playback. we figured out a solution about a week before we first heard back from adobe offering completely useless advice.

 

[Mike Smith]

I still don't see how we're being "given the middle finger by their CEO". I for myself am perfectly happy with CC. premiere still does it for me (mostly anyways). there are solutions for the issue with the software having to connect to the internet every now and then, as quoted by adobe. I can see, however, how this could become an issue for, for example, documentary film makers who spend long periods out in the wild.

lastly, I don't think your comparison isn't working. if red had a subscription model like adobe, we'd all buy a camera and then receive the latest models as soon as red releases them. but of course this wouldn't make any sense given that cameras are being used and abused and therefore lose value, whereas software doesn't.

Software doesn't lose value? I have whole bunch of 10+ year-old software I can sell you at full price then if you're interested.

Ok... So Red suddenly decides that Dragon is rental only. You love the idea and send in your MX for conversion. Now of course, when it comes to renting it back, you pay rental on all of it, not just the new bits. Obviously you'd have no objection to this based on your support for Adobe's new deal. And new customers pay the same rent as you do for your Red Dragon even though you had owned the MX version. No problem, right? If you did have a problem, you could have your old MX parts put back in and have the MX back. No warranty. No new color science. Your MX is end of line. If you want a Dragon, it's rental only. Sounds like a great deal, right?

 

[Mike Smith]

...Our goal is to help you. So lets keep the feature requests coming and the conversation open.

Cheers

Dave

If your goal is to help, give us a purchase option. All those wanting to send feature requests, please create your own thread. This one is about Adobe abandoning Creative Suites. See thread title.

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

Software doesn't lose value? I have whole bunch of 10+ year-old software I can sell you at full price then if you're interested.

Ok... So Red suddenly decides that Dragon is rental only. You love the idea and send in your MX for conversion. Now of course, when it comes to renting it back, you pay rental on all of it, not just the new bits. Obviously you'd have no objection to this based on your support for Adobe's new deal. And new customers pay the same rent as you do for your Red Dragon even though you had owned the MX version. No problem, right? If you did have a problem, you could have your old MX parts put back in and have the MX back. No warranty. No new color science. Your MX is end of line. If you want a Dragon, it's rental only. Sounds like a great deal, right?

as far as I know adobe CC doesn't consist of 10 years old software but is rather the most up to date you can ever get, all without ever leaving your chair. and you wouldn't have to send in your computer for the upgrade either. imho, your comparison still "stinks". anyways, we can continue this conversation ad absurdum but I don't really see the point. I for myself am pretty happy with both our CC subscription and our red.

 

[Phil Holland]

3. We have now moved the Lumetri color engine into Premiere. That was the first step. To think we moved all of speedgrade into Mercury GPU in less than a year is quite a feat from the eng side. Just another step in the integration...

Two wild and crazy questions here David.

1. Now that Lumetri is supported via Premiere will we see a the primary and secondary "layer nodes" supported within the Premiere at some point. I understand we'll be able to create and import a look into Premiere, but creating and modifying it within Premiere would be desirable for certain things.

2. Something that I've found useful for timelapse work has been opening camera raw files in After Effects with camera raw settings applied to them. Since Adobe Camera Raw supports 16bit Tiff files do you think we'll see the added functionality of importing a .TIF sequence with ACR settings applied as well?

Also, 16bit .TIF and Camera Raw support in Premeire would be wonderful.

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

Also, 16bit .TIF and Camera Raw support in Premeire would be wonderful.

I second that! was quite surprised to see premiere rejecting a 16bit tiff sequence...

 

[Mike Smith]

as far as I know adobe CC doesn't consist of 10 years old software but is rather the most up to date you can ever get, all without ever leaving your chair. and you wouldn't have to send in your computer for the upgrade either. imho, your comparison still "stinks". anyways, we can continue this conversation ad absurdum but I don't really see the point. I for myself am pretty happy with both our CC subscription and our red.

Your logic escapes me.

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

Your logic escapes me.

dito. but let me spell it out for you: a used licence of, say, creative suite cs2, that's been used every day is still in "perfect condition". it might have been surpassed by loads of new versions but it's still absolutely the same thing the original buyer got when he bought it in the first place. whereas a used red one that's been in the field for years will show wear and therefore obviously loses value. the question wether it makes sense to buy outdated stuff is a completely different one.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Hmmm ... as far as support and features ... how about support of redcolor 3 without having to install that beta driver that seems to always get overwritten with cloud updates. I have given up on native support of R3D with adobe(the last dev drop was like months ago from RED, I haven't seen even a beta plugin for that - so i can't use any of my monochrome R3D directly). I have requested that the recent RED drivers be part of the cloud distribution every couple of months with never a response from Adobe.

 

[David McGavran]

Two wild and crazy questions here David.

1. Now that Lumetri is supported via Premiere will we see a the primary and secondary "layer nodes" supported within the Premiere at some point. I understand we'll be able to create and import a look into Premiere, but creating and modifying it within Premiere would be desirable for certain things.

2. Something that I've found useful for timelapse work has been opening camera raw files in After Effects with camera raw settings applied to them. Since Adobe Camera Raw supports 16bit Tiff files do you think we'll see the added functionality of importing a .TIF sequence with ACR settings applied as well?

Also, 16bit .TIF and Camera Raw support in Premeire would be wonderful.

More is coming in the future with lumetri. Can't spill all the beans . Camera Raw is still pretty slow for the ppro pipeline but we are always looking into it. Let me check on 16 bit tif part of me thinks we got this into CC

cheers
dave

 

[David McGavran]

Hmmm ... as far as support and features ... how about support of redcolor 3 without having to install that beta driver that seems to always get overwritten with cloud updates. I have given up on native support of R3D with adobe(the last dev drop was like months ago from RED, I haven't seen even a beta plugin for that - so i can't use any of my monochrome R3D directly). I have requested that the recent RED drivers be part of the cloud distribution every couple of months with never a response from Adobe.

CC has direct support for red color 3 no beta plugin needed and monochrome support.

cheers
dave

 

[Sandro Klopfstein]

dave, any thoughts on the matrox playout issue I mentioned?

 

[PatrickFaith]

CC has direct support for red color 3 no beta plugin needed and monochrome support.

cheers
dave

I just tested this again before I posted, I am on cs6 version 11.0.2.12 on two different machines ... neither can see redcolor3 and monochrome as options when i look at the "RED R3D SOURCE SETTINGS" in after effects. I also have done a google search on redcolor3 and redgamma3, no answers there aside from going to the beta pages to copy that file, I have wasted more then a few hours on this.