Action Products Raptor Offer: Only Good Until 3/22

[Ketch Rossi]

LOL.

 

[David Kellermann]

Thanks Ketch for those kind words.

Again, I do think that the AP Raptor is worth every penny.

But here's a short list how it happened that I didn't included the Raptor in the list on the other thread and am opposed to a rivaling group buy:

1) AP was one of the first manufactures I contacted, but they refused to send out an offer for the group buy
2) Some weeks later. AP sends me an offer, just a week ago, after the voting is in fact finished and ProLine has won
3) Because of it's price point and the finished voting, I don't add it to the list, but put their offer next to the other offers on my blog
4) Marc starts an own group buy for AP (some users and I express my strong feelings about that)
5) AP contacts my, explaining that they have no intention at all to disrupt the ProLine group buy and that they would have never ever put in an offer if they knew that just one product will be selected for a group buy (which I kind of think is the point of a group buy)
6) They give me a time frame, when they will start their offer, suggesting that I should limit the deadline for the ProLine so that those group buys are not interfering, which I do.
7) They send a counter offer to users, and as soon as they post it on the forum, jump happily on that thread (nine hours after I got the mail that they are not going to do exactly that)

I hope that explains why I feel not to happy about it.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Credit were credit is do David, and you deserve it all.

Thanks for the explanation, and yes, form the outside it seemed to me a wrong way to do things and the guys at AP should have know better, as this only looks as "Oh S&^$# look at how many people want to buy a Steady Cam, we should have went in to this" and it's not a fair play in the way has been played out, plain an simple, and of course this is only ,my opinion and the way it seems to me, each can and will make their own assessment and decisions, but in my world of respect, integrity and fairness, this would have played out much differently, that is all.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Ahh'' OK, David,
Either you "take it or leave it" (lol - jus' jokin' - no hard feeling)

I hope this bad communication story won't suffer AP's reputation.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

AP's reputation is certainly intact in my book, but this kind of situations should not be happening just the same.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

1. "Take it or leave it" is a figure of speech that simply means the negotiations are over. Like any offer, you take it or leave it.

2. The reason there is a 3 day expiration on this offer is because they are releasing the Raptor at the introductory rate, as they had originally planned, this Friday. This is merely an opportunity for people to purchase the Raptor for LESS THAN THE INTRODUCTORY RATE.

3. Of course AP's rep is in tact. They make some of the best products in the world.

4. There is nothing wrong with sharing information which would enable fellow Redusers the opportunity to save money on a product they already plan on purchasing. I care about this community, that's why I have shared this private, unofficial offer, with all of you.

5. This offer is not for everyone. It's for those in the market for the Raptor, who are looking to save money. That's all.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Carey,

just the same, the last thing I have to say about this offer is that it should have been postponed till the one form David was over as respect to the proper etiquette.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Carey,

just the same, the last thing I have to say about this offer is that it should have been postponed till the one form David was over as respect to the proper etiquette.

I respectfully disagree. That's like saying the PROLine offer should be postponed until the Laing offer is over.

No one is stepping on anyone's toes here.

This is an offer for a different demographic than David's group buy.

I assure you, the PROLine group buy WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY AP'S OFFER. The Raptor is NOT in direct competition with the PROLine. We are talking apples and oranges here.

Those who can afford the Raptor are only a tiny niche, and none of them are even considering purchasing the PROLine.

 

[Jean Maurizio]

Okay, I wasn't going to post but I just can't hep it...


So with all do respect to every one here... This is wrong in so many ways I don't even know were to begin!!


Having pulled off extremely successful Group Buys in the past 6 years, I know how much work goes in to it, and by posting an other Group buy of the same product, no matter the quality and or price difference IT's the same product, it's utterly WRONG etiquette!!


I know the guys at AP personally since the very beginning of this community with the very first LA Salt test were the Red edition Action Cam was tested, and can attest for the craftsmanship of their products, but this is wrong for AP to even approve of this Group buy for the very same reason written above, sorry this is how it is!!


Then Carey there is the attitude, in some posts you are nice to David, and you should be as He did an insane Job on that Group buy, and then here you sound a bit too much arrogant, no good, this is a community and we should all be respectful one an other, especially when David is 100% right, and you are in the wrong.


Lastly 3 Days Group Buy? Take it or Leave it? What kind of Joke is this? A group buy could not be done in a more WRONG way then this.


Either way, good luck with your Group Buy.

+1

Sei un grande Ketch, I always read good things about you in this forum, and this message from you confirm your idea of etiquette and respect. Glad to see you in this thread.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I respectfully disagree. That's like saying the PROLine offer should be postponed until the Laing offer is over.

No one is stepping on anyone's toes here.

This is an offer for a different demographic than David's group buy.

I assure you, the PROLine group buy WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY AP'S OFFER. The Raptor is NOT in direct competition with the PROLine. We are talking apples and oranges here.

Those who can afford the Raptor are only a tiny niche, and none of them are even considering purchasing the PROLine.

And I respectfully rephrase it...


You are missing the point... It is not about which system, but about a Reduser starting a Group Buy on a Product, and no other Reduser should start an other Group buy on a similar product at the same time, despite what model and or which is better or worst or which costs less or more, it is called proper etiquette, at list this is how I see it.

Any ways, this really is the last post for me on this thread, I don't want to disrupt your sales here and again, best of luck with it.

+1

Sei un grande Ketch, I always read good things about you in this forum, and this message from you confirm your idea of etiquette and respect. Glad to see you in this thread.

Grazie Jean...

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Duly noted Ketch.

And just to reiterate, this IS NOT a group buy.

: )

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Here are the details of the package, shipping etc...


Break Down of what is included_
*
* *Raptor Arm:* Dual segment arm up to 28 pounds (ca. 12.7 kg) load capacity. 37" (96cm) lift. With high precision milled airspace aluminum (out of one solid block), 24 bearings, industry standard connector.
* *Raptor Post:* 2" (50mm) carbon fiber main tube. 1.8" (35mm) carbon fibre extension tube. 15mm carbon fibre horizontal rods (either standard 60mm spacing or optional studio 100mm spacing). Rods can be full tilted 360 degrees for extra adjustment possibilities. All aluminum parts milled out of airspace aluminum. Two swivels for battery mount and monitor mount.
* *Gimbal:* Fully milled (airspace aluminum) construction. All axis with bearings.
* *Power: *V-Mount or AB battery module plate (can also be used on ActionProducts EPIC modular package) - with swivel for tilting. 1x D-Tap, 1x main power connection (8pin LEMO connector), 1x 2pin LEMO accessory Power, 1x 2pin Fischer 5V accessory Power. A second battery module can be added.
* *Raptor 35lb BackMounted Vest:* BackMounted Vest with industry standard connector. Folded and milled aluminum construction that will resemble the make up of 50lb Back Mounted Vest used for the ActionCam Rebel Red and Pro. The half moon shaped piece seen in the NAB2012 pictures was a prototype at the time. That design was dropped.
* *Case:* No Case included in this offer. There will be a hard foam cut case made for it very soon. Also planning of offering a soft case in the future.

_*Shipping Information:
*_
* An order will be placed to put the Raptor in its first production batch after Friday when we have a solid number.
* Because this is its very first batch ever for this brand new rig, the lead time will be 8 weeks.
* Import tax could be any where from 0 - 3.9% depending on location where it is shipped.
* Shipping cost is not known yet, but will probably be some where around $100.

***A 20% down payment will be required to be paid within 10 days of 3/22/13

The remaining balance will be due at time of shipping.

 

[Justin R Goff]

Okay Carey good to know,

but I must tell you that saying "Take it or leave it" sounds pretty arrogant to me, and if this is what the guys at AP have told you, you should have said strait out ot them, thanks and good buy, I guess I'll "Leave it" as it will be pretty obvious they would need some serious etiquette and public relation teachings.

Thanks Ketch for those kind words.

Again, I do think that the AP Raptor is worth every penny.

But here's a short list how it happened that I didn't included the Raptor in the list on the other thread and am opposed to a rivaling group buy:

1) AP was one of the first manufactures I contacted, but they refused to send out an offer for the group buy
2) Some weeks later. AP sends me an offer, just a week ago, after the voting is in fact finished and ProLine has won
3) Because of it's price point and the finished voting, I don't add it to the list, but put their offer next to the other offers on my blog
4) Marc starts an own group buy for AP (some users and I express my strong feelings about that)
5) AP contacts my, explaining that they have no intention at all to disrupt the ProLine group buy and that they would have never ever put in an offer if they knew that just one product will be selected for a group buy (which I kind of think is the point of a group buy)
6) They give me a time frame, when they will start their offer, suggesting that I should limit the deadline for the ProLine so that those group buys are not interfering, which I do.
7) They send a counter offer to users, and as soon as they post it on the forum, jump happily on that thread (nine hours after I got the mail that they are not going to do exactly that)

I hope that explains why I feel not to happy about it.

Carey,

just the same, the last thing I have to say about this offer is that it should have been postponed till the one form David was over as respect to the proper etiquette.

Firstly, AP did not promote this thread. It was a private offer that was voluntarily made public. This is not a 'group buy' for the Raptor. The situation that AP is being faced with is extremely aggravating. Despite requests from users, we were excluded from David's group buy option. Now we are communicating with people interested in the Raptor, who learned about it from this forum. AP will not sit back and ignore customer requests. However, we are also faced with another problem - how to be respectful to David and the hard work that he has put into organizing a group buy. AP is a family run business and we genuinely care about customers and the film making community as a whole.


That being said, out of respect for David and also to respond to customers, AP reached out to David and specifically laid out our plans of the private offer. Again - David was notified of AP's plans to make an offer. It was brought to his attention that we will release a number on Friday, to satisfy both our customers and not to disrupt the group buy. The three day window serves two purposes. Firstly, it is out of respect to David's group buy. Few people riding the fence will make a decision on the Raptor in three days time. For the price range, the Proline is an excellent choice! None of the ActionCam stabilizers will ever meet the price range of the Proline, no matter how many units are made.


Secondly, it puts us on track for our normal plans of release. As mentioned before, the Raptor has been 2 years in the making and was set to be released at this time for the last six months. Neither Proline nor Raptor orders should be affected if interested parties are truly committed to respective rigs/price range/etc. Due to this forum being a popular place to stir up interested parties, the AP offer was leaked almost instantly. We are not responsible for this, as it was generated and driven by customer interest. The offer itself is a result of this customer interest.


It was not AP's intention to disrupt a group buy or any group buy. However, flip-flopping between whether or not to include the Raptor as an option in the first place led up to this situation. The regularly priced Raptor will be available Monday 3/25. Anyone interested in our offer for the three day order window to see what the order numbers are, have until Friday 3/22.

 

[Peter Karlsson]

Hey Justin! When do you plan to ship?

 

[Justin R Goff]

Hey Justin! When do you plan to ship?

Carey's post below is a good layout for shipping and what is included.

Here are the details of the package, shipping etc...


Break Down of what is included_
*
* *Raptor Arm:* Dual segment arm up to 28 pounds (ca. 12.7 kg) load capacity. 37" (96cm) lift. With high precision milled airspace aluminum (out of one solid block), 24 bearings, industry standard connector.
* *Raptor Post:* 2" (50mm) carbon fiber main tube. 1.8" (35mm) carbon fibre extension tube. 15mm carbon fibre horizontal rods (either standard 60mm spacing or optional studio 100mm spacing). Rods can be full tilted 360 degrees for extra adjustment possibilities. All aluminum parts milled out of airspace aluminum. Two swivels for battery mount and monitor mount.
* *Gimbal:* Fully milled (airspace aluminum) construction. All axis with bearings.
* *Power: *V-Mount or AB battery module plate (can also be used on ActionProducts EPIC modular package) - with swivel for tilting. 1x D-Tap, 1x main power connection (8pin LEMO connector), 1x 2pin LEMO accessory Power, 1x 2pin Fischer 5V accessory Power. A second battery module can be added.
* *Raptor 35lb BackMounted Vest:* BackMounted Vest with industry standard connector. Folded and milled aluminum construction that will resemble the make up of 50lb Back Mounted Vest used for the ActionCam Rebel Red and Pro. The half moon shaped piece seen in the NAB2012 pictures was a prototype at the time. That design was dropped.
* *Case:* No Case included in this offer. There will be a hard foam cut case made for it very soon. Also planning of offering a soft case in the future.

_*Shipping Information:
*_
* An order will be placed to put the Raptor in its first production batch after Friday when we have a solid number.
* Because this is its very first batch ever for this brand new rig, the lead time will be 8 weeks.
* Import tax could be any where from 0 - 3.9% depending on location where it is shipped.
* Shipping cost is not known yet, but will probably be some where around $100.

***A 20% down payment will be required to be paid within 10 days of 3/22/13

The remaining balance will be due at time of shipping.

 

[Phil Holland]

Justin, just wanted to come on here and say I love what's happened design-wise with the Raptor. This is indeed a great deal for a state of the art stabilization system.

Looking forward to the launch and some more in depth images of the final production rig. It looks great.

 

[Russ Fill]

Any pix's would be great but I know the official launch is on friday but maybe a peek:001_smile:

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Group - ON

Group - ON

What is the best format for a group buy scenario? Every major product category has multiple vendors, usually with products at various price points. One of the lures of a group buy modality is the chance to get a better product than one could otherwise afford, not just paying less for the product you were planning to get anyway.

As an example, let's imagine that there are several options in product category X and that the pricing is tied fairly accurately to quality/features/reputation. Let's also assume the manufacturer or reseller is willing to cut margin substantially to make a big sale - motivated by market share/cash flow/materials costs/advertising/etc considerations.

As a cameraman I am always looking to get the best tools I can without spending every dollar I make on kit. In the case of the steady group buy I can see the upside of reaching for the Raptor if the group size threshold brings the price down to X - due to my personal ROI situation I cannot justify paying more than that - no matter how great the AP rig is. If, as seems likely, not enough people commit in the next couple days, I would consider the ProLine at the 60+ price as well as the Laing.

What I am suggesting is that the ideal model for group buys might be to have the earliest deadline for the most expensive option. If not enough people commit, then the next option can have a chance to "hit the number" to trigger the deal, etc.

I bring this up in part, because I actually think that the 3 day AP offer is a good example of how this might work best for all since it expires quickly. Is it muddying the waters? You could look at it that way, but IMO it's perfect - if the quantity threshold is not reached, most of those potential Raptor buyers become potential ProLine buyers and the opportunity to reach the 60 mark is not compromised.

Cheers - #19

 

[Justin R Goff]

Any pix's would be great but I know the official launch is on friday but maybe a peek:001_smile:

Hello Russ, thank you for your interest! Below is a post I did with some information and pictures I posted on the first page of this thread.

Hello Everyone, below are some pictures with some information about our newest fully modular stabilizer, the ActionCam Raptor .

Brian Goff (engineer) demoing the ActionCam Raptor...

Two wide shots of the Brian with the Raptor...

You can see in both these pictures that the ActionCam is supported by the Back Mounted Vest. This will distribute the weight throughout your hips instead of your chest / shoulder areas. ActionProducts adopted this approach from the very beginning nearly 20 years ago. Our bodies are meant to carry weight throughout our hips, not our shoulders / chest areas. Using the ActionCam, you will notice that you will be more comfortable, in control, and be able to work longer hours without being as tired.

All ActionCam Back Mounted Vest are universal and can be adjusted to fit any operator. This includes being able to mount the arm on the left or right side at anytime.

19mm studio (104mm spacing) configurations are commonly used for heavier camera setups. Both ActionCam Rebel and Raptor series are fully modular stabilizing systems and can be seen when you use our "Build your own" approach at innocinema.com. This means the Raptor can be upgraded later to a bigger setup by parts alone, instead of buying a completely new rig. The ActionCam Rebel series is meant for heavier cameras and accessories that go with them. So you will see 19mm rods with 104 mm spacing used throughout the post to accommodate the heavier accessories.

This same principle is seen with the new ActionCam Raptor, except since it is designed for a lighter weight set up, you have the option to use 15mm lightweight (60mm spacing - seen on pics and video) or 15mm Studio (100mm spacing) set up on the post.

One monitor mount (ActionCam Rebel Red, Rebel Pro, Raptor) or two (ActionCam Elite) it is completely user preference. You are able to achieve dynamic balancing regardless of having one or two monitor mounts. The primary reason for two is a lot of operators like having the flexibility of having more space through the post for mounting accessories and using them for dynamic balancing in different ways. All rod standards are mounted to the post using 360 degree swivel mounts for added flexibility for dynamic balancing and accessory placement.

Wide shot of the Sled...

Here you can see the rods can swivel and there is a one sided battery module with Gold-Mount plates (V-Mount also available) plus a monitor. Notice there is also another random battery module mounted upside down directly under the post, thats only there to show that you really can mount these accessories anywhere and however you want.

Other cool side note about this one sided Battery Module, is it is the same Battery module used on our EPIC/SCARLET Modular Power system that is actually shown on the EPIC in this same picture at the top where the Battery Module is attached with quick release into the Electra. This means if you are using our system for the EPIC or SCARLET, the Battery Module is able to be used as part of the Raptor without having to buy the same power source twice if you don't need it....

Here you can see closer how the arm is made with swiss precision out of Air Craft Aluminum. Like the rest of the rig, it is based on the same spring package technology ActionProducts uses in the ActionCam Rebel series. This is why you can operate with a large weight variance with just one rig without adding weight. ActionCam Raptor is currently estimated at 8-28 lbs, and the ActionCam Rebel can carry a load of 11-77lbs. It is very easy to swap out springs on the fly to keep the arm soft between larger weight variances.

Here you can see closer how the expandable post is made out of carbon fiber. This is a complete open system from the stage down to the bottom of the post. This lets the operator run any custom cable throughout the system. Doing this allows the operator to choice at anytime what kind of set up to use the ActionCam for without having to worry about custom making cables every time you need to change your set up.

Also notice that the gimbal is based on the 19mm standard and is made out of Air Craft Aluminum just like the rest of the system. This means the Raptor Sled can be used with virtually any industry stand Arm on market.

 

[Russ Fill]

Hello Russ, thank you for your interest! Below is a post I did with some information and pictures I posted on the first page of this thread.

Thank you Justin, I did see those, I should have said any pix's that are of the unit today or maybe now the vest and everything is as it will be for the release.