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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

65mm? The plot gets even THICKER?

And if Red's Dragon "arrived at 65mm quality", then one can only imagine where a Red 65mm might take us. ( :
 
Bill Anderson said:
And if Red's Dragon "arrived at 65mm quality", then one can only imagine where a Red 65mm might take us. ( :
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The only thing that has been hinted at is VistaVision. The potential there is outstanding in reality. Let's see how the cards land with all of this.

One major reason Arri can't sell the 65mm is the cost of the sensor itself. At least for now.

RED has been in larger than S35 territory for a while. And essentially created the path to multi-format digital cinema cameras. With Weapon VV we'll see the next step for those who want that.
 
Phil, I'm not talking about what has been hinted at, or suggesting that this is part of the upcoming reveal. Simply a comment on the potential of such things.

Not to mention it was an honest enough progress based on Scott C's comments regarding Jim's remarks on Dragon and 65mm quality… Is that OK?
 
Phil Holland said:
The only thing that has been hinted at is VistaVision. The potential there is outstanding in reality. Let's see how the cards land with all of this.

One major reason Arri can't sell the 65mm is the cost of the sensor itself. At least for now.

RED has been in larger than S35 territory for a while. And essentially created the path to multi-format digital cinema cameras. With Weapon VV we'll see the next step for those who want that.
Click to expand...


Phil: I agree, nothing other than VV/FF35 has been hinted at and my point was that this is THE Major development. And while 645 may be an interesting niche format, VV/FF35 is the big deal since besides the hundreds of different high quality still lenses, there are already several major cine lens manufacturers that are supporting the format (and if truth be told we can thank the Canon 5DMII for that). It provides a substantial resolution jump over the competition in a camera that seems to have most of the other high end features done well. And we also should remember that NHK has already been working on an 8K broadcast system for several years and they anticipate jumping past 4K in their next attempt at a broadcast standard.


FF gets a significant enough decrease in depth field to satisfy the artistic intent of almost everyone.
 
Couldn't agree more, Scott. I think I maybe flogged that particular horse a bit too much though.
Just dreaming out loud.

EDIT : Also, it was not in any way meant to diminish the prospects of VV. That is going to be otherworldly.
 
Yeah 65mm may not be this year. I may have jumped gun on that. This year is year of Vista Vision. But down the road? Why not? RED is always pushing boundaries. And 65mm may well one day be one...
 
I am not sure how much of its the cost of the sensor vs them realizing there is no glass to support it. Guenter told me they could sell the sensor, but what is the point if there is no glass for it and very few buyers. Modding all those lenses are a huge cost of it, not that the sensor probably isn't also expensive, I am sure it is. I mean easily three times the costs of XT I'd guess, but I'm betting half the cost of that camera is the glass and the 16 mags that comes with it and the codex station, etc. I have a quote from CSC for a 10k day rate on it with a break down of its total value for the insurance, I can double check if they say what each thing is worth but think its just a total of a million and they didn't do a per lens cost or anything..


Phil Holland said:
The only thing that has been hinted at is VistaVision. The potential there is outstanding in reality. Let's see how the cards land with all of this.

One major reason Arri can't sell the 65mm is the cost of the sensor itself. At least for now.

RED has been in larger than S35 territory for a while. And essentially created the path to multi-format digital cinema cameras. With Weapon VV we'll see the next step for those who want that.
Click to expand...
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Looks like the camera is maxed out at 120FPS at 4K at 5:1, yellow on the framerate meaning maximum FPS as we all know.
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Brian Merlen said:
I am not sure how much of its the cost of the sensor vs them realizing there is no glass to support it. Guenter told me they could sell the sensor, but what is the point if there is no glass for it and very few buyers. Modding all those lenses are a huge cost of it, not that the sensor probably isn't also expensive, I am sure it is. I mean easily three times the costs of XT I'd guess, but I'm betting half the cost of that camera is the glass and the 16 mags that comes with it and the codex station, etc. I have a quote from CSC for a 10k day rate on it with a break down of its total value for the insurance, I can double check if they say what each thing is worth but think its just a total of a million and they didn't do a per lens cost or anything..
Click to expand...

Yep. Those other factors certainly come into play. This is why personally I feel VistaVision is a wiser move, at least for those attempting to own and shoot with these camera.
 
Phil Holland said:
The only thing that has been hinted at is VistaVision. The potential there is outstanding in reality. Let's see how the cards land with all of this.

One major reason Arri can't sell the 65mm is the cost of the sensor itself. At least for now.

RED has been in larger than S35 territory for a while. And essentially created the path to multi-format digital cinema cameras. With Weapon VV we'll see the next step for those who want that.
Click to expand...

Cost is not the problem. Rental is simply more profitable when keeping its target audience in mind, who demand the best of the best. No expense spared.
The 65 uses the same sensor tech as Alexa, just a bigger piece of it. Which means minimal R&D cost.
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
Cost is not the problem. Rental is simply more profitable when keeping its target audience in mind, who demand the best of the best. No expense spared.
The 65 uses the same sensor tech as Alexa, just a bigger piece of it. Which means minimal R&D cost.
Click to expand...

That sensor design is extremely profitable at this point, but the yield is still a problem on something like this.
 
Phil Holland said:
That sensor design is extremely profitable at this point, but the yield is still a problem on something like this.
Click to expand...

I would say 4000 to 6000$ per sensor. Yields have improved alot over the past decade... you can even get a 10k 90x90mm fairchild sensor for 30.000$ (depending on volume)
 
I wonder when the first images from this "VV" bad boy will come in - or vill ve have to vait till NAB?
 
The 65mm Idea for Weapon is just a day dream. To get the media out, You need to scrap all the upcoming modules etc. Even ARRI had to align with Codex, probably under duress, to achieve that goal. Vista or Full Frame 35 would be reasonably possible, I am sure it will be the next chip in Your weapon body. As radical as RED is, they also flagrantly discard their own developments. I am pretty sure they could have redeveloped their primes for a full frame version, if that wasn't how they started in the first place, but they just chucked it, so their 18-85 Zoom, would have been nice if You could put it on anything else but the RED. It was mechanically not an Angy, but was cost effective, just a little adjustment to create a Mark II, it would have been fine. Interestingly on the 65mm front, ARRI may have the Camera but Panavision has the lenses,
and what would You do with a 65 mm RED? Its like a Ferrari in the Garage with a dirt road out side. If You are going to shoot the next David Lean movie, better order about 6 Bodies and develop a non helical
lens focusing system a la Linhof Technica or Mamiya RZ. I am not saying its not possible, and if anyone would adapt nutty ideas, it would be RED, but the requirements for a 65mm production would be extensive
especially on the lens department. To usurp a 70s proverb to hitch a ride: grass, gas, ass or glass.
 
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