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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why Canon sucks balls.

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You know what pisses me off the most? I ordered the 7D a month ago and finally they charged my credit card and shipped it, I ironically just received it today. I was pretty excited about this camera even though I did not have very high expectations of the video, but I cannot convince myself to even open the box because I don't know if I should send it back or just wait for this IV camera. But then come December what are they going to announce, the 1DS version that does something marginally better? And I get screwed again.

I love technology but sometimes I sure hate it. What I love about RED though, is that I know exactly what is coming. They tell us way, way too far ahead that and that creates understandable delays, but at least I know that they wont fuck me a day after I buy the new model. Hell, I bought my RED two years ago and they didn't even fuck me two years later, I get to trade that one in for full credit!

Some people keep saying that the Canon bodies are cheap in comparison so it's not the same. I hate to break it to you, but I have spent over $20k on Canon bodies and batteries and model specific accessories in the last 2 years.
 
>And I get screwed again.

Grady, your comment makes no sense. The 1D costs $5k, and the 1Ds will cost $8k. The 7D costs less than $2k. So this is not a case where a new "marginally better" camera gets released for the same amount of money or for $100 more. This is not "screwing" at all. You are over-sensationalizing the situation, or you are simply over-thinking it.

And when it comes to video, the 1D does not do ANYTHING brand new compared to the 7D (well, except the high ISO shots). If you want to think of it in terms of stills, sure, there are differences, but in terms of video, the differences are not big. Therefore, you, sending back the 7D and getting a 1D for an additional $3k for one single additional video feature, makes absolutely no sense.

>but I have spent over $20k on Canon bodies and batteries and model specific accessories in the last 2 years.

I think your pockets have holes, then. It's not Canon's fault, it's yours, for not prioritizing or thinking logically. You don't seem know what you actually want. If you were my husband, I would be pissed off at you. ;-)
 
Eugenia, Vincent said the video has far improved in the IV over the 7D, even though from the video and frames people have posted it still looks like it has the same issues.

I hate getting a product just shipped that feels outdated to me already before it is even opened.

Canon is blending the model range, not me so your point is not valid. The 5D MII was noticeably a better camera when it came out then the top of the line 1Ds MIII, even though the 5D was a lower product line. The 7D had more professional video features than the 5D had, even though the 7D was a lower range product.

Yes, I am a moron for buying the latest and greatest. That is about the only comment that you made that I agree with you about.
 
Grady Wilson said:
You know what pisses me off the most? I ordered the 7D a month ago and finally they charged my credit card and shipped it, I ironically just received it today. I was pretty excited about this camera even though I did not have very high expectations of the video, but I cannot convince myself to even open the box because I don't know if I should send it back or just wait for this IV camera. But then come December what are they going to announce, the 1DS version that does something marginally better? And I get screwed again.

I love technology but sometimes I sure hate it. What I love about RED though, is that I know exactly what is coming. They tell us way, way too far ahead that and that creates understandable delays, but at least I know that they wont fuck me a day after I buy the new model. Hell, I bought my RED two years ago and they didn't even fuck me two years later, I get to trade that one in for full credit!

Some people keep saying that the Canon bodies are cheap in comparison so it's not the same. I hate to break it to you, but I have spent over $20k on Canon bodies and batteries and model specific accessories in the last 2 years.
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It's amusing how much whining some of you guys are doing over Canon's minimal offerings in video capture. I have been shooting with Canon for many many years and have no issue with their release schedule. I keep upgrading as needed to accomplish my work for my clients with the latest 1D, 1Ds and 5D models as they are introduced. I don't ever feel screwed. They seem to stay on a 2 year cycle and that is acceptable. I have been using the 5D for video capture on a few personal projects but saw no reason to buy the 7D at all. It's been known that Canon was going to have HD capture in all it's new cameras for quite a while now, so the new 1D feature was not a surprise, (especially right before the big photo show in NY).

I am sure there will be a 1Ds MK4 with video capture next and I will probably wait for that camera before upgrading again. In the meantime, I don't see any of these offerings competing with the RED ONE under any circumstances, let alone the new Scarlet, Epic etc. They are two completely different animals. I think the 7D is a steal compared with the 5D mk2, so where is the issue? Enjoy using your 7D or just wait for the 1Dmk 4 if you need those features instead.
 
From Canon's new propoganda. Hollywood cinematographers. Really.

The EOS-1D Mark IV, EOS HD Video Powerhouse
Over the past year, Canon’s EOS HD Video technology has changed the way users capture 1080p HD video and opened new doors for multimedia journalists and Hollywood cinematographers alike with full manual exposure control, selectable frame rates, and interchangeable lenses on some of the largest and most sensitive image sensors on the market. Canon continues this innovation trend with the new EOS-1D Mark IV Digital SLR with Full HD capture and full manual exposure control, plus selectable frame rates on an all-new
APS-H-sized image sensor that’s similar in size to a Super 35mm motion picture film frame. The large sensor allows filmmakers to achieve shallow depth-of-field just as cinematographers have traditionally done using much higher-cost motion picture equipment.
 
Karl Lohninger said:
Grady, please break it - I'm having a hard time following you! How did you spend 20k on ' Canon bodies and batteries and model specific accessories in the last 2 years' ?

And then you say: What I love about RED though, is that I know exactly what is coming.
Congratulations, because it seems you're the only one. Not even the inner polit-bureau of RED claims to know that ;-)
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Karl, You are very smart but I am afraid to say I agree with Grady. I would hate to add up how much money I have spent myself over the last 5 years on batteries and chargers that change every time, water housings that always change, wireless transmitters that change, Kirk brackets, etc. etc. etc.

I also fall in the class of being on the bleeding edge and investing in the newest technology as it happens. Do I need the newest camera every time it comes out? No, of course not. But in the last 2 years I have never felt even 80% content with the Canon or Nikon cameras that have been released. Canon's jack-ass autofocus problems have cost me many jobs. I get weird sensor defects in stills sometimes. A defect with S-RAW cost me to loose face and loose a job. Nikon is a bit better, but their glass is pretty poor in comparison other than a few select lenses.

So I keep hoping the next model will solve my issues and foolishly buy it. I get 1% closer it seems every new model. I am not trying to support a RED vs. CANON argument; but on paper, RED at least shows me something that will make me 95% content.

And for Grady being the only one that knows what RED is making in the new cameras, what rock have you been hiding under? RED told us the cameras that are to be released almost a full year ago, and have updated us with changes to those every step along the way.
 
>?Vincent said the video has far improved in the IV over the 7D

You misread. There is a better high ISO support, and there is less rolling shutter. But the actual pixel for pixel quality you would get, is very similar, since it's the same chip, algorithms, and codecs used. So yes, there is some video evolution here, but not one that warrants a difference of $3k. Maybe one that warrants $500, but not $3k.

So saying that you feel that your $1700 7D is now outdated, is simply preposterous.
 
Misread what? those two "improved" issues you just pointed out, just happen to be the two of the biggests problems with this new crop of DSLR video cameras. Too bad it doesn't look like they have been improved enough, and maybe that is why Canon asked for the video to be pulled.

You just made my point, and for that, I thank you.
 
Grady Wilson said:
Misread what? those two "improved" issues you just pointed out, just happen to be the two of the biggests problems with this new crop of DSLR video cameras. Too bad it doesn't look like they have been improved enough, and maybe that is why Canon asked for the video to be pulled.

You just made my point, and for that, I thank you.
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No, the biggest problem is subsampling and there is no improvement in the 1D IV.

Whatever, the 1D IV is clearly not aimed at a video market but at sports photography with occasional video as a bonus. The 7D and 5D II in contrast are being bought by people who consider the stills photography as a bonus.
 
RE: Grady Wilson

Haha, you got to be kidding me. You are trying to come on top here, but I won't let you. Your arguments make no sense, and you don't listen to what I am saying.

Most of the dSLRs already have WAY better low light support than ANY consumer or cheap prosumer camcorder -- which are devices at the same price range as these dSLRs. So low light was NEVER a "problem" with dSLRs to begin with. The fact that the 1D is better in low light does NOT mean that the 7D is "bad" in low light. The 7D is in fact WAY better than any camcorder in its price range regarding low light.

As for the rolling shutter, it's STILL THERE. It's just somewhat improved over the 7D, but it's STILL there, and it's MORE than in ANY CMOS camcorder. Even more than the $500 HV20 camcorder.

Therefore, no, you don't get to win this one. If you are really trying to JUSTIFY to yourself buying the 1D for an extra $3k just for these two features (actually, one and a half feature), then you are out of your mind.

I will say this, and it's the last thing I will tell you. In terms of VIDEO, buying the 1D is not justified when the 7D can do MOST of what the 1D can, at a FRACTION of the cost. So telling me over here that "I want to send back my newly arrived 7D, it's already old", sounds like completely crazy talk to me.

I am done with you and your insecurities.
 
Grady Wilson said:
Some people keep saying that the Canon bodies are cheap in comparison so it's not the same. I hate to break it to you, but I have spent over $20k on Canon bodies and batteries and model specific accessories in the last 2 years.
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Hi,

I am always amused by the argument that digital is always cheaper than film. I spend way more on camera bodies than I ever did on film & processing.

My 2 Nikon F2's from the 1970's still going strong, last serviced 1990.

Stephen
 
Grady Wilson said:
Eugenia, Vincent said the video has far improved in the IV over the 7D, even though from the video and frames people have posted it still looks like it has the same issues.

I hate getting a product just shipped that feels outdated to me already before it is even opened.
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So the "frames people have posted" have the same issues as the 7D and yet you feel like what you purchased is already outdated? And you want to return your 7D and spend 3K more for the IV?

Grady Wilson said:
Canon is blending the model range, not me so your point is not valid. The 5D MII was noticeably a better camera when it came out then the top of the line 1Ds MIII, even though the 5D was a lower product line. The 7D had more professional video features than the 5D had, even though the 7D was a lower range product..
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No they are not. The 5D MkII is a FF sensor the 7D is a cropped sensor. What professional video features on the 7D? The 24P or 60P? The 5D will have 24P and the reason the 7D has it now is because Canon realized they should have had it after they released the 5D and since their team was busy getting the 7D ready for launch it got it first. Now that they have freed up they will port that tech to the 5D via a firmware.

The 1Ds M3 still shoots more FPS than the 5D M2 and since these cameras are designed to shoot STILLS how do you figure the 5D is better? They both have shoot 21 Megapixels as well and in fact if you are shooting sports and need better weather sealing the 1Ds M3 is probably a better choice. It all depends on the application.

As far as the product range, what should Canon do? Only make 1 camera? O only release a new camera every 5 or 10 years so you don't feel like you were cheated? Should they not improve the tech of all of their cameras?

Grady Wilson said:
E

Yes, I am a moron for buying the latest and greatest. That is about the only comment that you made that I agree with you about.
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I tend to buy the latest and greatest as well but I offset the cost by making sure there is a reason to upgrade and to sell my old gear while it still has value so that it reduces the cost difference. If you are not making money with your gear then you buying the latest and greatest every time something comes out is just like a guy who enjoys restoring an old car. It's a hobby, it's going to cost you money and you should determine the pleasure vs cost ratio.

Grady, one last thing. I'm confused about why you need the 7D or 1D MK4? To shoot video or to shoot Stills? Didn't you say you already own a Red camera? So what will you do with the Canon camera? If it's too shoot stills, then I think you already know if you need to spend the 3K extra for the MK4. By the time the MK4 is even available for purchase the Scarlet should be out, so I really don't see what you are trying to achieve here. Instead of taking that 7D out of the box (if there is even a box - would love to see a photo of it) and going out there and making some magic you are worried if you should return it and wait months and months more and spend another 3 thousand. Hmm.
 
Eugenia you are taking this way to personal. Just because you are loosing this argument does not mean you need to make person attacks against me.

Let us just agree to disagree. I feel fed up with Canon and how it is marketing it's products as high end professional cinematography tools that are used in Hollywood.

It doesn't matter if you do not agree for my feelings, it is how I feel, and you cannot change that. I am obviously not alone as I did not start this thread.
 
Grady Wilson said:
Let us just agree to disagree. I feel fed up with Canon and how it is marketing it's products as high end professional cinematography tools that are used in Hollywood.
.
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Then why did you supposidly puchase the 7D? And hate to break it to you but Canon is not marketing these products as "high end professional cinematography". How do I know this? Because Canon JP has no clue about this market. In fact they just asked that Vincent take down the video he made using the 1D M4. Yeah, they really want to market that camera. It's the people who are pushing these cameras and using them in ways Canon never even thought of.

Can I see some of your professional cinematography?
 
Grady Wilson said:
Let us just agree to disagree. I feel fed up with Canon and how it is marketing it's products as high end professional cinematography tools that are used in Hollywood.
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Get Rodney Charters and Shane Hurlbut to stop using it in Hollywood and Canon won't be able to say it.
 
Tim H. said:
Then why did you supposidly puchase the 7D? And hate to break it to you but Canon is not marketing these products as "high end professional cinematography". How do I know this? Because Canon JP has no clue about this market. In fact they just asked that Vincent take down the video he made using the 1D M4. Yeah, they really want to market that camera. It's the people who are pushing these cameras and using them in ways Canon never even thought of.

Can I see some of your professional cinematography?
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Tim, that is exactly the point. Canon IS marketing these cameras for professional cinematography. Please look my post on the last page which came directly from a Canon mass email and please show one scene where Charters has actually used Canon footage in his show.
 
Phil Jordan said:
Tim, that is exactly the point. Canon IS marketing these cameras for professional cinematography. Please look my post on the last page which came directly from a Canon mass email and please show one scene where Charters has actually used Canon footage in his show.
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Yes that is marketing alright but it's reactive marketing. They only did this after "we" made them aware of the potential for their products. They would never had produced a camera without 24P if they had any clue who they were marketing for.

Now, that they "get it" they are starting to use the fact that Hollywood professionals are using the camera. This is fact and any amount of google searches will support this. Look at the DP from 24 putting Panavision lenses on the 5D and the other samples already cited.

Anyway, none of this changes the fact that these cameras from Canon (and soon Scarlet) are novel and have given filmmakers with small or no budgets a tool to get closer to that cinematic look that they have been after for years. No more silly DOF adapters on HVX 2000 or Sony EX1, etc and these little cameras can also play a nice roll in second unit, stunt/crash box cameras, etc. Lets use all of these tools to our advantage.
 
Phil Jordan said:
So you are telling us that Charters is shooting the show with his Canon as the primary camera on the show. This is big news. I wonder if he knows that.
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I didn't say that at all. Why are you making stuff up? The only thing I said is that Charters is using Canon DSLRs on Hollywood projects, like 24, which doesn't air until January.
 
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