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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Weapon worth it? Poll time

Weapon worth it? Poll time

  • Upgrading to 8K Vista

    Votes: 29 10.3%

  • Upgrading to 6K Weapon

    Votes: 14 5.0%

  • Neutral

    Votes: 57 20.2%

  • Disappointed

    Votes: 182 64.5%
  • Total voters
    282
D

Dunkan Wolf

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So the specs are out:

http://www.red.com/products/weapon-dragon#tech-specs

What are your thoughts? Personally i am a bit underwhelmed. 2k prores is nice, but i was expecting atleast UHD / 4K ProRes in camera.
8K Vista sounds awesome, but way out of my price range. No framerate improvements have me a little bit disappointed.

Dragon and MX already make great images. So there's no reason for me to upgrade.
Perhaps Red has hit a technological roadblock and improvements from now on will slow down?
 
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Ah, what is it about REDusers that they want polls but can't put a scientifically viable one together? lol

Like too many "seat-of-the-pants" polls, this one leaves many with the only answer being "none of the above."
 
I wish I could see higher frame rates as I'm sure everyone here!

8k is a good enough reason to upgrade for me still at it helps a lot with the 3D matching for that I'll take even 16k of I can. You can be very creative.

When you shoot higher frame rates in Dragon the compression increases a lot and the image is not the same as a result of this. So YES you have slow motion but what kind of slow motion is another story. I hope the Weapon addressed that. I see slow motion with the Phantom and it's absolutely WOW.

Also when you shoot 2k the quality is not there. I wish Red came with an algorithm that when you shoot with 2k, 3k etc you actually shoot with 6k or 8k in the Weapon and the final image is adjusted and recorded in 2k so the image will be Fantastic. Then I can use a lens like if I had 3-4-5 lenses.
 
Cost too much. I took the leap of faith and upgraded to Dragon. Wish I hadn't. $30,000 coming from a Scarlet does not make business sense. And still no internal NDs? Is that correct?
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
So the specs are out. What are your thoughts??
Click to expand...

8K is 16 times the data as 2k, so if the CF can push around that...

...maybe it can handle 4K ProRed in 5K S35 mode.

Unless the scaler is hardware and locked at 2K.
 
Ryan Sauve said:
Revolution turned to evolution with revolution pricing.
Click to expand...

A bigger form factor with more CPU power is badly needed. Red has the advantage of small ASICs and Wavelet encoding. Scale that shit up and blow the competition out of the water!
 
I think 2k apple proress at 120fps will look pretty good if as I assume the down scale takes place before proress compression....

8k downsampled to 4k will look in terms of noise 4k downscaled to 2k... which is allot better than pretty much everything out there.

Also they improved the things behind the sensor, black shading etc. I have no doubt that the weapon signal is cleaner then the epic dragon and that makes it also more light sensitive.

With the extra resolution ontop of it all I see no comparison to the vista weapon. Alexa XL comes to mind but that´s a competently different camera. It´s not small, it´s not light weight and it does not come at the same price.... Alexa XL rents for 10000€ / day and can not be bought.

We order the weapon with the 8k upgrade option, I just really hope that red is getting them out really fast now so there is not a new dragon episode where the cameras are trickling out 2 years after deposit is placed... But it looks promising this time around people are actually shooting with the 8k version all ready. So I actually have hope they will deliver on time this time.

Also as it seems it´s not something everyone will jump at, I guess for private use it´s quite difficult to justify the xtra cost compared to the current dragon. So I think quite a few people will stay on current dragons, and I think it´s very possilble red does price cuts on MX and current dragons yet again. So all in all there will be a pretty good differentiation between the setups... Everything from the quite expansive 8k weapon down to scarlet MX. All those cameras and the ones in between are really good cameras and all have their client base and usage.

So this new camera will be very beneficial for everyone I think, imagine how much SSD´s and accessories will be sold here when the bigger rental place starts to swap out their cameras and 1.8 SSD modules... That is something the other market players does not have... A second, third and fourth camera on the market that all share the same Accessories.... The red cameras are not yet obsolete. The most awareded film in Sweden this year was shot on redone MX with HDD...
 
I was planning on getting a carbon fiber epic eventually next year, but I'm happy enough to go weapon route. My modules are now worthless, but not until I personally make the switch to weapon. Then I'll sell them for what I can. I think prores + R3D is gonna give RED a lot of ground that was lost to the ALEXA, as more people are finally getting comfortable with dragon.
 
Jon Carr said:
I was planning on getting a carbon fiber epic eventually next year, but I'm happy enough to go weapon route. My modules are now worthless, but not until I personally make the switch to weapon. Then I'll sell them for what I can. I think prores + R3D is gonna give RED a lot of ground that was lost to the ALEXA, as more people are finally getting comfortable with dragon.
Click to expand...

Agree, I would probably jump on it right away even if I still had our dragon but as shit got stolen two months back my options are to buy a current dragon now, which does not feel like a good idea or rent now and get weapon asap.

It really sucks to get the gear stolen, but I guess the timing could be worse than it was... Luckily the insurance did not pay out at once... So while waiting for the money Jarred started to drop these weapon pix.. I would have been quite bummed if I would have bought all the accessories etc for epic dragon and then a few days after see the announcement of weapon :)
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I have absolutely no interest in prores (avid dnxHd is much more useful for me and most people I know) ....but think I am still interested... What is the frame rate differencee? does it go faster? If yes then it is a no brianer...
Click to expand...

No framerate improvements according to the spec page... 50% boost in CPU power for lower compression.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I have absolutely no interest in prores (avid dnxHd is much more useful for me and most people I know) ....but think I am still interested... What is the frame rate differencee? does it go faster? If yes then it is a no brianer...
Click to expand...

Yes goes faster, 100fps 6k instead of the 78 fps or what ever it is now.
 
I'm disappointed NOT by the camera (technology, build, or design), but by the trade-in price. I wished that Red's trade-in price was more of a method to move us all to WEAPON (similar to Microsoft or Apple trying to get folks to move to the next OS). If only they charged enough to cover cost and say an extra bit, that would have given us a reason to upgrade.

The swap out doesn't exactly justify the price IMO. Not when other cameras are coming out so cheap. The new price seems fine, just the trade-in price seems too low. Weapon might become a niche camera in a time when industry is slow (in Canada at least).
 
Björn Benckert said:
Yes goes faster, 100fps 6k instead of the 78 fps or what ever it is now.
Click to expand...

If there was a performance increase logic would follow that RED with put that in the headline instead of burying it on page 62 ;-)
 
Well a lot of the weapon features & pricing on this round seem to me to be more for the A list crowd and rental houses, rather then the smaller owner/operator/renters. Also owner/operator/renters way outnumber the ASC type crowd on reduser, so i'd expect some problems with the pole here. I do think RED had to focus on the ASC and Network crowd for features for weapon, otherwise long term it would not have been good for RED and reduser. Normal Dragon's so awesome though, i think those that aren't going weapon will be able to get back on the wagon when the prices come way down in two years.
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
No framerate improvements according to the spec page... 50% boost in CPU power for lower compression.
Click to expand...

High Frame Rate at Low Compression is the only reason I would upgrade. Not amazed currently with the Dragon FR to CR tradeoff - seems like you get over 9:1 in a big hurry. Tests have shown that 5:1 or lower is RED's sweet spot. Heck . . . my iPhone shoots 240fps at 360P YouTube quality - so stating one value without the other is of little use. Question remains: what is the FR to CR difference between Dragon and Weapon? Based on what I'm reading my guess is little to none. No sense in scraping expensive memory cards etc without a corresponding performance reason to do so. I didn't buy the gold Apple Watch since my iPhone tells me the time just fine ;-)
 
As far as the Poll:
1. Disappointed that Weapon wasn't the FF35 or Phantom Lite camera it could have been.
2. Happy that Weapon is the same as my current Dragon (with a new sexy dress) since my resale value just went up based on current model pricing.

So no good options for me to check off on this Poll. Wait and watch I suppose
 
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