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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

WEAPON Dragon is really Evolution or What?

A

Andrey Blanco

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I applaud evolution but what is the point of making this kind of announcements this early?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?128336-Dragon-upgrades

We all know NO real users are going to received any weapon until mid 2016 (I had been optimistic here), If you think for a second, Early Dragon adapter not even have a year with their new toys and now you are making obsoleted the camera, Almost making feel people bad with what they have in their hand, You are deliberately creating this need to have this new Weapon.

If you guys at RED are desperate to say something or create attention at NAB, Why don't you better focus on convincing great filmmakers to use your camera? I personally thing that the best marketing campaign for a camera manufacturer would be displaying on a Big Screen all the award wining Movies that had been filmed with the camera you are trying to sell Me (Sadly this is not the case with red now).

Red Epic Dragon is a Great Camera there is not need at this point for another Weapon I think what we need is more people using the Camera.

Looking the recent announcements of companies like Red, Panasonic, Sony, etc. I seriously think something is not right with camera manufacturers these days.
 
Andrey Blanco said:
I applaud evolution but what is the point of making this kind of announcements this early?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?128336-Dragon-upgrades

We all know NO real users are going to received any weapon until mid 2016 (I had been optimistic here), If you think for a second, Early Dragon adapter not even have a year with their new toys and now you are making obsoleted the camera, Almost making feel people bad with what they have in their hand, You are deliberately creating this need to have this new Weapon.

If you guys at RED are desperate to say something or create attention at NAB, Why don't you better focus on convincing great filmmakers to use your camera? I personally thing that the best marketing campaign for a camera manufacturer would be displaying on a Big Screen all the award wining Movies that had been filmed with the camera you are trying to sell Me (Sadly this is not the case with red now).

Red Epic Dragon is a Great Camera there is not need at this point for another Weapon I think what we need is more people using the Camera.

Looking the recent announcements of companies like Red, Panasonic, Sony, etc. I seriously think something is not right with camera manufacturers these days.
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A few things. Red is informing people fairly early to let them know an upgrade is coming. The Dragon to Weapon Upgrade will be happening for some time and begins summer/fall 2015.

While your perspective seems to somehow relate cinema awards to reflect all motion picture productions, I don't feel I need to remind anybody that some of the largest films (and highest grossing) have been shot on Red cameras. Think about things like The Hobbit for instance. Heck, Gone Girl prior to 50 Shades of Grey had one of the biggest R-Rated opening weekends ever.

I'd imagine much like previous years at NAB Red will have a showreel featuring many of the feature films and perhaps even some of the more recent UHD 4K episodic shows in there. House of Cards, Daredevil, etc...

There is no camera on the market that you can purchase that puts Oscar in your hands. That 100% comes down to filmmaking as a craft, story, performance, and production value.

Also, I do think until we learn exactly what Weapon is, much of this logic should be postponed.

Red is just informing people an upgrade is coming and they dropping a few early details about timing and upgrade paths.
 
I would have to check the math - but if sensor is the same, but a logical "larger" size .... it's not going to be 8K. It would have to be ... more.
 
It's a natural progression of technology. Why are people getting angry about this? No one is forcing anyone to upgrade. The announcement this early, like Jarred said, was to let people know, in enough time, that they needed to have a Dragon to be eligible for Weapon upgrade.

It's been stated before and I'll re-type it… we still don't fully know what Weapon is. Until we know that, how can folks get so upset over something of which we know very little.

I think everyone needs to take a breath and be patient. NAB isn't too far off but until then, if you can, get your ducks in a row before the big announcement.
 
Adam Rook said:
Until we know that, how can folks get so upset over something of which we know very little.

I think everyone needs to take a breath and be patient. NAB isn't too far off but until then, if you can, get your ducks in a row before the big announcement.
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No matter how much anyone knows ... folks will be upset regardless.

It is so very ironic that people get upset over having MORE options ... MORE powerful tools ... MORE choices.
 
The only thing missing here is the spec for the camera / upgrafe, I think that is what cause this whole confusion.
 
Reasons I choose red prior to caring about who else uses it.

1. Redcode
2. Picture quality
3. Performance
4. Flexibility (many different configurations)
5. Upgrade path
6. Price
7. Post flexibility (resizing, green screen, etc,)
8. How they have treated me as a customer (this could easily be #1)
9. Continuous improvement philosophy "Kaizen"
10. The great folks I have met along the way.

When soderberg made Che on RED that was cool. I was already in by then, I did not need more convincing. Since then many great film makers have created work on this platform. That would be the very last reason I choose a platform. I do not feel the need to identify with those sorts of things.

Battistella
 
Agree on David's list.

And so happy that even with my Scarlet the list works for me.

Try doing that with the slew of Sony XDCAMs collecting dust at my work :P
 
Guys I love RED too (I Totally Agree on David's list) , I'm more than happy with my Epic Dragon, is just I think unnecessary and apresurate this kind of announcements, I think there is other aspects of the Business than need more attention.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I would have to check the math - but if sensor is the same, but a logical "larger" size .... it's not going to be 8K. It would have to be ... more.
Click to expand...

If the Dragon sensor were scaled up to FF35, it would be 7200 pixels wide, it only has to grow a bit over 5mm horizontally. To go to a 65mm or make it comparable to the Alexa 65 (which is a bit larger than 65mm Academy with its 54.12mm sensor width). That would make a 65mm Dragon sensor 10K.... A 645 sized MF sensor would be 12K if made from Dragon pixels.

These pixel dimensions and associated data sizes are going to get really big in a hurry if RED goes down this path. OTOH, it makes total sense as the industry pushes toward 8K and beyond.
 
I don't post very much but I felt I had to say something here. I don't know of any company that would give you a heads up on their next product. They've changed the game with digital to the point that Arri is going after their throats. I'm actually amazed that Jarred went out on a limb for us little folks so we can plan ahead. I shudder to think what our options would be if RED didn't exist. Because of them anybody can get their hands on a world class cinema camera. The rest is up to us but at least we have access now.
 
is it possible that the dragon sensor is already larger with a new body in mind just as mx was larger and this wasn't known until epic came along. anyone physically measure it ?
 
Philip Loo said:
They've changed the game with digital to the point that Arri is going after their throats. .
Click to expand...

Totally, with the new Arri Mini or whatever they call it. Looks like an Epic, sorta, with wireless. I've been around long enough to trust RED, and I know they're doing what they need to do to stay relevant and on the edge.

Finding more big Hollywood directors who shoot RED: well, I'd rather RED keep putting most of their efforts into making great tools. I don't buy products based on celebrity endorsement :-)
 
What would happen if every one made complaints every time a brand gave you more and better options?
...if you dont like the new camera (before it exits), dont buy it!
Options are great. If anything, I would love for RED to make cameras for lower end markets, I wont hold my breath, but complaining about moving forward seems rather stupid.
 
patrickortman said:
Totally, with the new Arri Mini or whatever they call it. Looks like an Epic, sorta, with wireless. I've been around long enough to trust RED, and I know they're doing what they need to do to stay relevant and on the edge.

Finding more big Hollywood directors who shoot RED: well, I'd rather RED keep putting most of their efforts into making great tools. I don't buy products based on celebrity endorsement :-)
Click to expand...

I don't either, but I am not alone making decisions about what to shoot with. Many clients, especially advertising creatives, who sometimes (I'm not saying always, there are some great people out there) have less tech knowledge than the average golden retriever but still want to micro manage everything, do care which celebrity big thing was shot with what.
 
I appreciate all the wonderful possibilities of bigger sensors, they suit my personal tastes nicely. That said, anything larger than S35ish is simply impractical for 95% of the projects out there; from lens availability to maintaining critical focus during real world production…

Cheers - #19
 
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