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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

VFS Inclino, Imperio, Origo News ??

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Thanks Jim, but the rods were nor flexing or rotating. The motor arm was pivoting on the rod. its a potential issue for all one-rod attachment systems and unfortunately for my shoot, that's what happened. just curious to hear from any of the lucky VF owners to see if this was an issue.
 
The problem is the rod. Carbon fiber rods have a compression factor. The motor clamps onto the rod and the rod compresses ever so slightly until the motor can move on the rod given force. This is a long-known issue with carbon fiber as a technology. Anyone who stopped by the Abel table at the REDuser event in Vegas saw that I had an Arri wireless lens controller setup on a RED. The camera that was provided to me came with a pair of carbon fiber rods and sure enough the motors would rotate on the rod given force and would slip off the lens gearings. I had to borrow a steel rod from another booth and then all was well.

There was nothing wrong with the M-One mtor with your Bartech. There is nothing wrong with the clamp on the VFS moor (as far as I know) and there is nothing wrong with the clamps on Preston, ARRI or anyone else's motors. The problem is with the carbon fiber rods.
 
Nooo - now I also have to ditch my carbon rods... well, if the Inclino/Imperio will arrive.
 
Mitch, is that true of solid carbon rods as well as hollow? I can see where hollow would have some give, but solid is, well solid. Which were yours at the Vegas event?
 
Mitch Gross said:
The problem is the rod. Carbon fiber rods have a compression factor. The motor clamps onto the rod and the rod compresses ever so slightly until the motor can move on the rod given force. This is a long-known issue with carbon fiber as a technology.
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This is not a "known" issue, nor is it a limit of carbon fiber technology. It may be a factor in some of the rods that are being used currently for camera rods. (Think carbon fiber seatposts, road and mountain bike handle bars, formula one race cars with carbon fiber mounting points, etc.)

It is probably more a factor of how carbon fiber can be very smooth or slick; you could try using something like this "Fiber Grip Carbon Fiber Assembly Gel" (Google this or "Carbon Fiber Assembly Paste").

Carbon fiber products can also have particles embedded in them to serve the same purpose.

Hope this helps,
Dennis Wilkins
 
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So the videos show two different motor designs. The loud one is the first design (harmonic drive). It was what we shipped out in the first 30 units. That design uses a drivetrain that we buy from an external supplier - they have been a pain to work with and have provided drives that have varying levels of quality. The video with the quiet motor is our new design that has a cycloidal ball reducer that we manufactured in our own shop. The quality control is much tighter and we can dictate our own schedules and production runs.

We got the new drive train design up and running this afternoon and its working out very well. Based off what I have seen this evening I'd say that the new design we have is at least 3x quieter than the previous harmonic drive design. The other benefits include faster speed, less friction, and less current draw. We have made several units with the new design that we are currently cycle-testing and load-testing, in addition to that we are making the production fixtures so we can get these out the doors faster.

I want you all to know that we are doing this to make this a system that is not just inexpensive but the best system on the market. We will have a shipping schedule posted in the next couple days as soon as we have run parts on the production fixtures and have the heat treating locked down.
 
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Mitch Gross said:
I think t's imortant to note that while the cost of a VFS system is low, it is not 1/10th the cost of an equivalent system from the competition. When you look at a single channel Bartech system with cables, it is in the $4000 range, maybe 2x the price of the equivalent VFS system. The moment you go multi-channel you must consider the fact that there is only a single knob on the current-ish VFS cntroller, compared to alays having a separate controller on every oter system. Arri's 2-channel system is around four time more, bu the performance is top notch. Same goes for more basic 3-channel system. No fair comparing the VFS to a Preston or C-Motion with all the bells and whistles because those devices have a ton of optional extra functionality that the VFS system does not.

Apples to apples please.
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You're absolutely right Mitch I was comparing it to the BIG boys. Reason for doing so was because I've always needed a three channel system. Bartech for me is then a little to much to handle since it's more of a 2 channel system and already then I feel it's a bit of a handful. Now VF will of course have it's cons as well, since it doesn't have a 3 way sys yet, that has separate controllers.

So I can't wait to see what the Pro version (when ever that will come out :laugh:) will be like. BUT I will be able to use the motors with that and now it's seems like they're a great choice, especially since they're bus powered. Great for future applications and ways of shooting.

As for ARRI the closest 3 channel system is 6.5 times more expensive not 10.

So my apologies.
 
Thanks for the update Curt.

Looking, or rather, sounding good.

Hope to see you guys back on track with deliveries soon, and at the same time, to have mine in my hands to work with.

Cheers,
Damien

PS Better late than never.
 
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Lateral and torsional strength of carbon fiber is excellent; compression strength is not. Depending on the density and weaving design, carbon fiber can vary in strength in all categories. A solid carbon fiber rod may or may not have better compression strength than a hollow rod.

Aeronautics-grade carbon fiber has extremely little compression, lateral or torsional give. The same may not be true for various carbon fiber rods used for camera support. I do not know who manufactured the rods on the camera I was using but certainly this is not my first experience with this issue.

Dennis Wilkins said:
This is not a "known" issue, nor is it a limit of carbon fiber technology. It may be a factor in some of the rods that are being used currently for camera rods. (Think carbon fiber seatposts, road and mountain bike handle bars, formula one race cars with carbon fiber mounting points, etc.)

It is probably more a factor of how carbon fiber can be very smooth or slick; you could try using something like this "Fiber Grip Carbon Fiber Assembly Gel" (Google this or "Carbon Fiber Assembly Paste").

Carbon fiber products can also have particles embedded in them to serve the same purpose.

Hope this helps,
Dennis Wilkins
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Could you post a test that shows the improved speed? That was the other issue that I noticed with the motor besides the noise, which sounds much better now than the initial model I tried. I'm sure the other wireless issues will be worked out with better firmware/software and the addition of the antennae.
 
SF Geek said:
Could you post a test that shows the improved speed? That was the other issue that I noticed with the motor besides the noise, which sounds much better now than the initial model I tried. I'm sure the other wireless issues will be worked out with better firmware/software and the addition of the antennae.
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The speed is about 20% faster. We changed the gear ratio to make the system faster now that noise isnt as much of an issue. The last design was digitally limited on the speed due to excessive noise when it was moving fast.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Depending on the density and weaving design, carbon fiber can vary in strength in all categories.
Click to expand...

That was the point I was trying to get across. You can effectively create a carbon fiber part that has characteristics that are near ideal for a given task.

Have you tried any of the assembly pastes that are available? I'd be willing to bet that it would solve the problem, and at the same time reduce the risk of crushing the carbon fiber rods by over-tightening the clamp. It makes a very significant difference.

Cheers,
Dennis Wilkins
 
This is really exciting. Ill be able to use these motors for narrative work now.
I know curt was working hard on these, and went through some revisions,

i think its pretty amazing what curt was able to pull off in such little time to do a redesign.
 
Thanks for the updating Curt, see how it makes everyone happy to be just kept in the loop. Most are happy to invest with you down this road and support what is looking and promises to be an excellent product with just a few lines every few days.

Cheers, i'm getting excited again:)
 
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