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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

VFS Inclino, Imperio, Origo News ??

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Sorry guys, I've been waiting on replacement harmonic drives for the last couple weeks and have been working on alternative solutions for the drive train that we can manufacture in house. I've done several protos using a cycloidal design and final parts will be done today to verify the functionality. When it works as expected we will ship new orders using our own parts instead of the harmonic drives from our vendor. The in house solution will allow us to hold better tolerances (which equates to less noise/friction) and have more control on lead times.

I'll post again as soon as I have verification of everything working. We'll get some field time by sending out a half dozen units, then after we've run the hell out of them on a test stand then will start up on shipments again. We have all the inclinos ready to go with electronics so once the drive train is squared away the assembly time will be around 10 minutes/motor. It will be at least a week and a half to verify these for production but initial tests look like we have a winner.
 
CVB said:
It will be at least a week and a half to verify these for production
Click to expand...

Converted from Viewfactor time to real time this means at least 2 months... :nopity:

Welcome back to the forum, Curt! :wink:
 
This parallels the effectiveness of hazing and severe hardship in boot camps; when one suffers to join a group, one tends to form a strong bond with that group, even if the loyalty is irrational or undeserved.

Let's see; VF took customer's money, payment in full, promising timely delivery. They have missed self-announced delivery dates, self-announced information dates, and finally delivered a few units which were either virtually DOA or completely DOA.

In short, we have serial promises along the lines of, "now we know what the problem is and we'll fix it (insert short time period here) and deliver (insert short time period here), all of which have proved to be, well, let's just say "incorrect."

This is not to hit too hard on the Origo, which used as directed, bricked so many cameras that Red had to issue a warning against it's use.

In general VF has exhibited shockingly poor management of this entire fiasco, stonewalling instead of being candid, and yet I see post after post lauding VF.

Even when I think I understand the dynamics, human nature still amazes me.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Since you canceled your order back in October, why do you keep coming back to this thread to parent Curt & Viewfactor? Or do you just like to scold? Seems like a waste of time, no? I think all of us here understand what we're into at this point. Those who continue to be angry have two simple choices, WAIT or REFUND. It's simple. I just keep seeing your posts Leo in this thread and they just seem like noise to me. We all understand how much you hate VF. You don't use their products anymore, so why continue to remind us of how horrible they are?

Like I said earlier, I went down to VF a week ago and saw what the delay was all about. Curt is not making this stuff up. If he wanted to, the Inclino/Imperos would be shipping RIGHT NOW but he doesn't want them out the door because they need to be as perfect as they can be. I don't think people really understand just what's going on behind closed doors. I mean, most people, if they were in Curt's exact shoes right now would probably just say, "fuck it, it's finished" and start shipping. Curt is not like that because he understands a quality product and wants to get it right the first time. Believe me, after they start shipping these units in droves, everyone bitching and complaining about a little follow focus will feel silly & more than satisfied. Let's put this in perspective people. We all have choices in life. We can either choose to be angry or do something about it.

:violin:

Leo Ticheli said:
After cancelling my order for the Inclino and Impero, I promptly received my refund.

I continue to be pleased with the quality of the Origo.

My cancellation was not based on a dissatisfaction with the people at View Factor or the quality of their work. After so many disappointments on delivery, I became worried about their ability to provide parts and service for their equipment in the future, so I decided to find another solution.

I do wish View Factor the best and every success. They are very nice people and talented designers.

Best regards to all,

Leo
Click to expand...
 
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Firstly, you've made my point.

Now, why post? We are here for the common good; we share information and opinions valuable to all Red users.

I do not "hate" VF, the company nor the people. I just don't think they merit the kind of fan-boy support I see here.

On the subject of "just shipping;" that's what they did. You may infer some nobility from wanting one's product to be at least acceptable, but producing an unacceptable product will rather quickly end most businesses.

Would I advise the purchase of a VF product? No. I believe what's past is prologue and I have no confidence that a VF product will be properly supported in the future.

This is my opinion, Richard; it's not personal. You have confidence in the people and company, so we differ on that point.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
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I don't think it's fan-boy support the same way that Redusers have fan-boy support. I think most of us just realize that this unit will ship when it ships. It's unfortunate that we've had this many delays but there's really nothing us fan-boys can do about it except wait. Bitching will not make it go any faster and if we really don't like it, then we can request a full refund and move on with our lives like you did. When people sign on here and talk shit and berate Curt, it's just adding to the noise like I'm adding to the noise right now.
 
Curt, that's all fine, very used to the waiting, get it right before you ship. Everything is cool.
But mate, you know how is pisses people off here you spending weeks to update customers with this bit of info and there really isn't any excuse to be so slack. A few lines to tell us this weeks back would have been fine, don't you understand this???? I'm supporting you but pull your finger out with these updates, they only take less than five minutes out of your day and that is ALL people are asking for...well...:) Five minutes mate, that's all.
 
Leo Ticheli said:
In short, we have serial promises along the lines of, "now we know what the problem is and we'll fix it (insert short time period here) and deliver (insert short time period here), all of which have proved to be, well, let's just say "incorrect."
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you, Leo.
 
I think Leo has made calm and even-handed remarks, and he is most definitely not "talking shit." If we disagree with his statements, please let's just keep it to that and not characterize it in a way that ups the ante.
 
The problem all along is that Curt and the boys aren't business men. Now that's either our pain or our saviour as it will be (as far as it seems) an affordable product that will let us play on professional level. Now as far as I know with all these "problems" that the guys run in to it's all because they want to perfect it to a standard costing 10 times more. There's a reason why these products normally cost 10 times more. I've stated before that I was prepared on all this and that I see it in the way of that I wouldn't have bought a wireless unit earlier anyway and would have been renting during this period all along (although I did buy one in the end, but that's because my economy suddenly allowed for it). Now I can see that some feel uncomfortable and cheated since VF took full payment, but I can also see that a small firm wouldn't be able to start up if we hadn't - so it's unfortunate but necessary to wait by now.

Personally I'm ok with waiting, because I know what changes are made and why... and it's definitely worth it. I don't want to buy crap even though I'm paying for it - so I'll gladly wait, but that's me.
 
So is a full refund an option? Id like to be the nice guy and continue to patiently wait for my product to be delivered. but I'm in rather sore need of cash, unfortunately. Or a FF unit, Asap.
 
I think t's imortant to note that while the cost of a VFS system is low, it is not 1/10th the cost of an equivalent system from the competition. When you look at a single channel Bartech system with cables, it is in the $4000 range, maybe 2x the price of the equivalent VFS system. The moment you go multi-channel you must consider the fact that there is only a single knob on the current-ish VFS cntroller, compared to alays having a separate controller on every oter system. Arri's 2-channel system is around four time more, bu the performance is top notch. Same goes for more basic 3-channel system. No fair comparing the VFS to a Preston or C-Motion with all the bells and whistles because those devices have a ton of optional extra functionality that the VFS system does not.

Apples to apples please.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I think t's imortant to note that while the cost of a VFS system is low, it is not 1/10th the cost of an equivalent system from the competition. When you look at a single channel Bartech system with cables, it is in the $4000 range, maybe 2x the price of the equivalent VFS system. The moment you go multi-channel you must consider the fact that there is only a single knob on the current-ish VFS cntroller, compared to alays having a separate controller on every oter system. Arri's 2-channel system is around four time more, bu the performance is top notch. Same goes for more basic 3-channel system. No fair comparing the VFS to a Preston or C-Motion with all the bells and whistles because those devices have a ton of optional extra functionality that the VFS system does not.

Apples to apples please.
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Actually, there is another important point : maintenance and service.

I just had my first issue ever in 3 years with my Bartech receiver a few days ago, probably due to a faulty cable. The issue came up in the morning, I needed the system a few hours later for a steadicam shot.
I called the french Bartech rep, who told me he'd be able to help me out. Half an hour later I was at his shop, and he was actually able to fix it (and the faulty cable) in less than an hour, in front of me ! Now, that's service.:thumbup1:
I was able to get back on set in time for the shoot, perfect timing.

I was pretty impressed by how easy it was to just change the chips (there are 4 of them, and each one can be very easily removed).

For now, nobody knows how easily the Impero can be repaired, and how good/fast Viewfactors service will be.
 
CVB said:
Sorry guys, I've been waiting on replacement harmonic drives for the last couple weeks and have been working on alternative solutions for the drive train that we can manufacture in house. I've done several protos using a cycloidal design and final parts will be done today to verify the functionality. When it works as expected we will ship new orders using our own parts instead of the harmonic drives from our vendor. The in house solution will allow us to hold better tolerances (which equates to less noise/friction) and have more control on lead times.

I'll post again as soon as I have verification of everything working. We'll get some field time by sending out a half dozen units, then after we've run the hell out of them on a test stand then will start up on shipments again. We have all the inclinos ready to go with electronics so once the drive train is squared away the assembly time will be around 10 minutes/motor. It will be at least a week and a half to verify these for production but initial tests look like we have a winner.
Click to expand...

What about the imperos?
Are they ready? I have ordered Impero&Inclino, but I also have a birger mount waiting for the Impero. If it's ready, I'd really like to get it now, no matter what's going on with the inclino, even if it means paying extra for shippping...
 
Had to rent a bartech last weekend. Unfortunately, it was non-functional because it would kick itself off of the gears after a few turns. I tried and tried to tighten it down on the rod, and it was darn tight, but it still eventually slipped (I guess "pivoted away" is more correct). The bartech uses the same single attachment point for the motor as VF's unit. Has anybody had this issue with either the bartech or with the VF unit? Not sure if this matters, but I am using solid carbon fiber rods. Thanks
 
Michael Panfeld said:
Had to rent a bartech last weekend. Unfortunately, it was non-functional because it would kick itself off of the gears after a few turns. I tried and tried to tighten it down on the rod, and it was darn tight, but it still eventually slipped (I guess "pivoted away" is more correct). The bartech uses the same single attachment point for the motor as VF's unit. Has anybody had this issue with either the bartech or with the VF unit? Not sure if this matters, but I am using solid carbon fiber rods. Thanks
Click to expand...
First, it wasn't the BarTech but the motor, which was probably an M-One from Loon Video. Having said that, it is important to note that this can be caused by several other things than the motor rotating on the bracket, such as rod flexure, rod rotation and even lens movement in its mount. The M-One motor most commonly used with the BFD is very fast and powerful in order to push 35mm film camera lenses around, but may be overkill in some cases. A less powerful version, the M-One .5 is available for these uses.

One trick I have seen is to add a pull-down attached between the motor and the other rod to hold the motor in place. But regardless of motor or attachment method, any motor fast enough and powerful enough to do the job can have this happen if whatever it is attached to can flex or rotate.
 
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