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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Upgrade Paths

Brent, Thanks for understanding our frustrations. I get that things didn't go as planned on several fronts and appreciate RED's efforts to make good with all of us as best you can.

Awesome news about VV-preorder peeps. Just hoping I'm in the first batch...

Cheers - #19
 


Side note, though not totally.

If you want to get your hands on Epic-W 8K S35 and take a look at what the Helium sensor tech can do, there's a camera setup at RED Store Hollywood.

It's equipped with the Standard OLPF.

I imagine other RED Stores abroad will be getting them if they haven't already.
 
Brent@RED said:
All good, folks. I would be frustrated in your shoes with the wait. Heck, I am frustrated in mine. And I can see how certain posts could have been read not as they were intended, which only adds to the frustration. I get it. And I hope we are all cleared up now...

Silver lining is, first batch of VV-preorder folks are getting contacted by their reps as we speak with the HELIUM option....
Click to expand...

Ohh, nice!! Sadly no email, must be in the next batch.
 
Hi Jarred,

What is the status of upgrade in a scenario if the EPIC DRAGON camera was sent for an MG Weapon Upgrade in August and the upgrade did not happen and then
comes the Helium announcement?

This is what has happened with us. I am not getting a clear picture even after almost 12 days of Oct 11 announcement.

Thanks

Harcharan
 
Malik Tigrine said:
Hi,

I just get this reply from Azule EU for the 0% financing program :


"Thank you for your recent proposal. Your request has been carefully considered and unfortunately the proposal has been declined at this point in time.

Many apologies we have been unable to assist on this occasion.

Kind regards"

 Any Advice?
Click to expand...

Talk to Azule, they're a good bunch. Their underwriters make the decisions but perhaps there are reasons why that you can sort out? There's nothing Red can do about that.

Personally i found it more practical to take a longer lease, even though that incurs interest.

cheers
Paul
 
Anyone know where the queue stands for us folks that are upgrading from a Scarlet Dragon to Epic-W? I put in my order last week and from what my rep told me it may be a few weeks before I get an allocation email. The anticipation is killing me.
 
Yeah, me too. Don't think anything is going to happen until November at least (maybe longer)...
 
I'm having some trouble with this. As an Epic-X Dragon owner, I can upgrade to the Epic-W for $15k. Fair price. Much more than fair actually, b/c being able to upgrade at all is ridiculously cool. But as far as I can see, this is what I get:

Helium sensor color science (probably better than Dragon but can't see yet)
8K
Lighter body
ProRes @ 4K (I already have ProRes @ HD with my external recorder)
Stay on the upgrade path

And this is what I lose:
3% smaller sensor
Same data rates (75fps @ 6k, 30fps @ 8K) means that if I want to overcrank I have to window down to 6K and reduce my FOV
Phantom Power
However much more money it costs to re-buy DMSC2 accessories.

Sensor size is mostly insignificant. Phantom power isn't a big deal, it just means I have to buy a dynamic or battery-powered mic for my on-camera scratch track. But because the bandwidth is the same, 8K feels like a downgrade to me. I think the only real option is to go for the Weapon 8K. Then at least you can shoot 60fps at full-size S35. It's not 75, but it's close enough.

What do you guys think? Am I missing something?
 
You've got it and the same issues in terms of windowing in HFR is the problem for me as well.
It might be one of them where you get the camera and when doing a 6K crop you dont notice any
issues and quickly adapt to the new changes... maybe not....
I'm also prone to shoot things in slo-mo far more than I should so Im also looking at the epic-w as
a way of making me rely on it less and shoot normal speeds. (you have to look at the silver linings here.)

I feel that I am losing that fantastic dragon FOV at any frame rate as I cant justify the 28K upgrade
path to 8K weapon....
 
joshua csehak said:
What do you guys think? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Here's my big list of what you get with DSMC2:

- Addition of Intermediate Recording Codecs Apple ProRes and Avid DNxHD/HR
- Simultaneous REDCODE RAW and Intermediate Codec Recording
- Improved Internal Data Rates
- Lower REDCODE RAW Compression Ratios
- Automatic Sensor Calibration
- Improvement in Total Captured Dynamic Range and slightly Lower Noise Floor
- Redesigned Underlying Color Engine
- 3D and 1D LUT Support
- Built in WiFi
- Improved Thermal Management and Quieter Ventilation
- Lighter Weight Camera Bodies
- 2X LCD/EVF Connections on the Camera Brain
- Cableless LCD/EVF Connections
- Smart Interchangeable OLPF Detection
- New OLPF Design (one bolt locking latch)
- Improved Optical Path
- Internally Accurate Timecode
- Intelligent/Integrated Top Start/Stop Connection
- Improved Mechanical Design
- 3rd Party Module Support
- Built in Scratch Microphones
- Integrated Top Plate/Cheese Plate
- Re-positioned and more convenient Backfocus Adjustment location
- Monitor Flip and Mirror on all Video Outputs


Remember all things equal, comparing Epic Dragon to Weapon Dragon you'll see slightly higher quality images coming from Weapon Dragon due to the new tech and some of what's listed above.

As for 8K Helium. Yep, it's a smidge smaller than 8K FF on Dragon. Here's a comparison:
http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare.cgi?formatOne_typeTech=RED%7CHelium+8K+S35&formatOne_format=8K+FF&formatTwo_typeTech=RED%7CDragon+6K+S35&formatTwo_format=6K+FF&focalLengths=

While that might not look like much, it actually means that some lenses that didn't cover Dragon 6K FF will actually cover Helium 8K FF. And for one set of glass I own, specifically 8K HD coverage is there with Helium, which makes me happy.

The real concerns are the crop factor and window downed shooting for say 5K resolution frame rates. That's a real consideration. Here's a comparison:
http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare.cgi?formatOne_typeTech=RED%7CHelium+8K+S35&formatOne_format=5K+FF&formatTwo_typeTech=RED%7CDragon+6K+S35&formatTwo_format=5K+FF&focalLengths=

And yep, there's a cost upgrading to DSMC2 accessories, but RED has publicly stated that DSMC2 accessories will likely be around past 2020. It's the new form factor and technology tier, it's also where developments are going to happen.

My personal suggestion. Since you are in NYC there will likely be a chance for you to check out Helium at the RED Store there. Go check it out. It is indeed better in lower light and a cleaner image overall. There's a few things on the color side that are harder tangible concepts at the moment, but will be explained/explored in the coming weeks. Either way I do think if you want to continue on the path you should make the upgrade to DSMC2 Dragon or Helium. These are pretty much the most flexible cameras on the market right now, especially when you consider the form factor and weight.
 
I'm excited to upgrade to the Epic-W soon and am super thankful to Red for the $10K Scarlet-W deal.

Not trying to knock the Drunken Finance program as it's very generous, but I had a weird experience when 0% financing my Sony FS7 nearly two years ago.

When I got my FS7, I did the 0% 12 month promotion through Sony who uses DeLage Landen as the finance company. I bought it locally through Samy's Camera. DeLage Landen without my knowing, reported my financing to the Los Angeles Business Office who then hit me with a "Unsecured Business Tax" which is total B.S. because I already paid California sales tax on it. So now, the city of Los Angeles wants $130 "tax" EVERY YEAR for the duration of my FS7 ownership. Huge extortion on the part of the city since sales tax was already paid. I only financed $10K for the FS7 package, so I'd imagine the more you finance the more the city of Los Angeles will try to extort from you.

I sold a few components from the package and have been trying to get the rate reduced, but dealing the City / Government is a total bureaucratic nightmare.

Once again, not sure if Red's financing partners do the same thing, but it's worth looking into if you live in Los Angeles (or any city that does something similar).
 
Nicholas Austin Skinner said:
the bandwidth is far from the same. Epic Dragon maxes out at 200mbps. Epic-W does 275mbps, which is 137.5% the bit rate of epic dragon
Click to expand...

I guess what I meant by bandwidth is they both max out at 75fps @ 6k. But you're right; I stand corrected.

Phil Holland said:
Here's my big list of what you get with DSMC2:
...
Click to expand...

That's a really helpful list, thanks! Some of these, namely:

- Automatic Sensor Calibration
- Internally Accurate Timecode

Are really sweet. The last one specifically b/c it means I won't have to listen to sound guys bitch about Red's timecode drift anymore. Freaking sound guys.

The others are solid incremental improvements. The biggest plus, I think, is being able to deliver overcranked and 4K footage in ProRes. That's something producers will definitely appreciate. Which means Weapon 8K is really the only viable upgrade for me. So I guess it's either find some way to justify spending $9k more on an upgrade than I bought my brain outright for, or be happy with DMSC1 for another year or so and buy the next gen outright and enjoy a solid B-Cam. Decisions, decisions.

I'll definitely check out Helium at the Red store; that's great advice. Maybe they'll even let me pop a card in and shoot a bit.
 
Gene Sung said:
Not trying to knock the Drunken Finance program as it's very generous, but I had a weird experience when 0% financing my Sony FS7 nearly two years ago.
Click to expand...

As if I needed more reasons to hate the FS7 ;) FWIW, I financed a C300 mk I back when they first came out (through Canon, I believe) and had zero trouble.
 
Can we get an official word on the current state of Raven allocations? It seems like Raven allocations all but stopped a month ago (around 9/23) after steady weekly progress. I know that there are Raven owners not on REDUser, but we've not advanced a week in the pre-order queue for a month now :(
 
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