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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Upgrade Paths

Blair, thanks for bringing up that little chestnut. I was wondering about that too.

...not trying to sound like entitled whiners here. I think the whole VV situation and super low production yields have to be completely maddening.
 
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth...

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth...

It could be that RED is doing the S35 Helium 8K "tide over" on a different basis than how they are allocating VV sensors.

Going by the Oct 11th announcement noted in Jarred's first post on this thread: Red representatives will begin reaching out to eligible customers to begin the upgrade process based on pre-order date and timestamp. There is no mention of Forged having priority over Woven, so I was not expecting that.

I'm not trying to "call out" RED on this point, these messy upgrade programs are something they did for us that they didn't "have to" do. Genuine gratitude, just respectfully asking for clarification.

Cheers - #19
 
Other WEAPON customers with VV orders have asked similar questions.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...a-new-Weapon&p=1534514&viewfull=1#post1534514
Excerpt: "And of course, when the 8K rolls out, the Forged are going to be first in line for those as well."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...pping-Update&p=1536808&viewfull=1#post1536808
Excerpt: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Weapon-Shipping-Update&p=1537468#post1537468
Excerpt: "New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...Dragon-8K-VV&p=1649953&viewfull=1#post1649953
Excerpt: "If you are an existing 8K VV pre-order, we will contact you in order of pre-order date/time stamp with the opportunity to move to HELIUM S35 until your number is up in queue for 8K VV. Please do not contact us to "reserve" that or anything. It will be an automatic reach out from us at the appropriate time. As Jarred said, plan on this kicking off in October."

To be clear, even from the first post I listed above, Forged has priority over Woven. As everyone knows, prior confusion was when - and we have not yet - re-open VV orders, new Forged orders would not leap frog Woven with earlier time stamps. I think you have to take that into context...

So, for both 'HELIUM no charge upgrades to those with VV orders' - and with VV upgrades themselves, it will be Forged by timestamp then Woven by timestamp. Hope that clears it up...
 
Brent@RED said:
.... Hope that clears it up...
Click to expand...


Hi Brent


I thought things were cleared up but now they are not.


Jarred told us that timestamp was THE ONLY criteria…


Originally Posted by Brent@RED
Jarred: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."What this means, the NAB special $10,000 preorders for 8K will all be allocated by time/date stamp. That is only criteria.




…and now you are telling us that it’s Forged timestamp and then Woven timestamp.


That doesn’t make sense. Yes... YOU said that Forged took priority but Jarred said that "timestamp is the only criteria". That is a contradiction. BOTH can NOT be true.

So now I'm confused. IF timestamp was not the only criteria for VV orders, then why did Jarred tell us that it was?


We've all been waiting for a very long time for these sensors. Yes we were told that it would be a waiting game but I thought that at least we all knew where we stood in the queue. I don't know about others but this is my livelihood that we are talking about here so it's a very serious issue for me. So please indulge me while I try again to get some clarity on this issue. Are you telling me that all this time, when I thought my time stamp was "the only criteria" (a statement from Jarred himself), that that is not true and that I will wait behind everyone who currently has a VV order with a Forged Weapon?
 
Joe Kleber said:



Hi Brent


I thought things were cleared up but now they are not.


Jarred told us that timestamp was THE ONLY criteria…


Originally Posted by Brent@RED
Jarred: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."What this means, the NAB special $10,000 preorders for 8K will all be allocated by time/date stamp. That is only criteria.




…and now you are telling us that it’s Forged timestamp and then Woven timestamp.


That doesn’t make sense. Yes... YOU said that Forged took priority but Jarred said that "timestamp is the only criteria". That is a contradiction. BOTH can NOT be true.

So now I'm confused. IF timestamp was not the only criteria for VV orders, then why did Jarred tell us that it was.


We've all been waiting for a very long time for these sensors. Yes we were told that it would be a waiting game but I thought that at least we all knew where we stood in the queue. I don't know about others but this is my livelihood that we are talking about here so it's a very serious issue for me. So please indulge me why I try again to get some clarity on this issue. Are you telling me that all this time, when I thought my time stamp was "the only criteria" (a statement from Jarred himself) that that is not true and that I will wait behind everyone who currently has a VV order with a Forged Weapon?
Click to expand...

I have to agree, Forged wasn't even a real thing when we ordered NAB evening, When it became a thing, that statement stopped me from upping my order to Forged... seemed clear. I don't care about the Helium Upgrades, but I am now confused on VV....??
 
Joe Kleber said:



Hi Brent


I thought things were cleared up but now they are not.


Jarred told us that timestamp was THE ONLY criteria…


Originally Posted by Brent@RED
Jarred: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."What this means, the NAB special $10,000 preorders for 8K will all be allocated by time/date stamp. That is only criteria.




…and now you are telling us that it’s Forged timestamp and then Woven timestamp.


That doesn’t make sense. Yes... YOU said that Forged took priority but Jarred said that "timestamp is the only criteria". That is a contradiction. BOTH can NOT be true.

So now I'm confused. IF timestamp was not the only criteria for VV orders, then why did Jarred tell us that it was?


We've all been waiting for a very long time for these sensors. Yes we were told that it would be a waiting game but I thought that at least we all knew where we stood in the queue. I don't know about others but this is my livelihood that we are talking about here so it's a very serious issue for me. So please indulge me while I try again to get some clarity on this issue. Are you telling me that all this time, when I thought my time stamp was "the only criteria" (a statement from Jarred himself), that that is not true and that I will wait behind everyone who currently has a VV order with a Forged Weapon?
Click to expand...

Joe, with all due respect and also at the risk of repeating myself, you are quoting Jarred as saying something he did not. Hell, "criteria" is a word from my post, not his. So this statement is simply incorrect: "YOU said that Forged took priority but Jarred said that "timestamp is the only criteria". That is a contradiction."

If you go back and read the links, which I already posted, he and I were simply clarifying what I stated earlier in this thread (and what he was trying to clarify from an earlier misunderstanding). Forged is first in priority. If you had a Woven VV pre-order, and someone placed a Forged order AFTER that initial (and, so far, only) VV pre-order batch, that person would not jump over you. NAB pre-order group for VV would be considered it's own exclusive group. So, within that group, timestamp rules. First Forged then Woven. Timestamp in that group overruled a Forged order placed after that group. This is protecting the exclusivity of that pre-order group. A good thing, no?

You guys are acting like there is a big contraction here when there is not. Nothing has changed. The pre-order VV group will be taken care of before any new VV orders are taken care of. First Forged, then Woven. Having a timestamp in that pre-order group is critical, hence, me (not Jarred) saying it was paramount.

If we put VV back up for sale tomorrow, should a brand new Forged VV-order guy go ahead of the Woven guy that placed during the pre-order period? Of course not. Just like Jarred said in the post I referenced earlier.

Lastly, if I am not mistaken, the posts you guys are referring to (Jarred's on 8/20/2015 and my reference to it on 11/13/2015) are WELL after we closed the VV pre-orders anyways. So, to say you made buying decisions on the VV priority based on those posts is somewhat moot since that window closed long before those posts.

Brad Grimm said:
I have to agree, Forged wasn't even a real thing when we ordered NAB evening, When it became a thing, that statement stopped me from upping my order to Forged... seemed clear. I don't care about the Helium Upgrades, but I am now confused on VV....??
Click to expand...

Brad, people ordered it, so it was real. Like mentioned above, your VV order could not have been determined by that statement as the VV window was closed before that statement was even made.
 
Last edited:
Brad Grimm said:
I thought for sure there was something mentioned before the Forged NAB closed.. O, Well.. in my defense, it was a very long time ago...:)
Click to expand...

Brad, I hear you. As was pointed out earlier (Jeff), the VV yield, and ensuing wait, sucks for you and sucks for us. And, to help do right by you guys, Jarred wanted to offer this 8K S35 no-charge step.

I am the first to apologize if a post was read the wrong way, in the wrong context, whatever. Even if I was flat out wrong*. But I hope everyone can see, we are here trying to be as transparent, and honest, as possible. We are human (aside from Jarred and Jim, who are cyborgs or something that never need to eat or sleep) and just trying our best to treat you guys with same respect and visibility we'd expect if roles were reversed.

* PS, let the "let's find where Brent was wrong" REDUSER searches begin, haha. I think I saw enough "he said, she said" tonight in the debate for a lifetime...
 
Brent@RED said:
Brad, I hear you. As was pointed out earlier (Jeff), the VV yield, and ensuing wait, sucks for you and sucks for us. And, to help do right by you guys, Jarred wanted to offer this 8K S35 no-charge step.

I am the first to apologize if a post was read the wrong way, in the wrong context, whatever. Even if I was flat out wrong*. But I hope everyone can see, we are here trying to be as transparent, and honest, as possible. We are human (aside from Jarred and Jim, who are cyborgs or something that never need to eat or sleep) and just trying our best to treat you guys with same respect and visibility we'd expect if roles were reversed.

* PS, let the "let's find where Brent was wrong" REDUSER searches begin, haha. I think I saw enough "he said, she said" tonight in the debate for a lifetime...
Click to expand...

Lol! Brent, I know I speak for all us VV depositors when I say we appreciate and totally understand the situation. We all know you and your team put your hearts and souls into your work every minute... We then get to use your amazing tools to put our hearts and souls into ours. It's awesome.
 
Last edited:
Brent

Thanks for the reply.


You are correct. I went back and read what was said on the original page and it turns out that Jarred did NOT say the words “that is the only criteria”.


So I apologize to you and to Jarred that I misquoted Jarred. I had taken the quote from the “Weapon 8k Queue” thread and I thought it was Jarred who said it. Jarred did not say “that is the only criteria”.


YOU did.


Here is the original page where the quote comes from:


http://173.199.159.58/forum/showthread.php?138234-Update/page19




So thanks for trying to clear everything up. I agree with Brad. I’m not too concerned about how you treat the interim HELIUM upgrades. But I think, if you got an honest report, you would find that many of the current VV depositors took this to mean the same thing I did. ..and that is that “timestamp is the only criteria” meant that our timestamp is the only thing that matters. To now learn that that is not what you were saying just adds to whole lot of frustration.

 
Brent@RED said:
Other WEAPON customers with VV orders have asked similar questions.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...a-new-Weapon&p=1534514&viewfull=1#post1534514
Excerpt: "And of course, when the 8K rolls out, the Forged are going to be first in line for those as well."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...pping-Update&p=1536808&viewfull=1#post1536808
Excerpt: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Weapon-Shipping-Update&p=1537468#post1537468
Excerpt: "New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...Dragon-8K-VV&p=1649953&viewfull=1#post1649953
Excerpt: "If you are an existing 8K VV pre-order, we will contact you in order of pre-order date/time stamp with the opportunity to move to HELIUM S35 until your number is up in queue for 8K VV. Please do not contact us to "reserve" that or anything. It will be an automatic reach out from us at the appropriate time. As Jarred said, plan on this kicking off in October."

To be clear, even from the first post I listed above, Forged has priority over Woven. As everyone knows, prior confusion was when - and we have not yet - re-open VV orders, new Forged orders would not leap frog Woven with earlier time stamps. I think you have to take that into context...

So, for both 'HELIUM no charge upgrades to those with VV orders' - and with VV upgrades themselves, it will be Forged by timestamp then Woven by timestamp. Hope that clears it up...
Click to expand...

Brent for Vice president. Or Minister of public communication. Not kidding, thanks for this post. it clears things up. So now I keep my phone charged and click on the inbox... a lot... like mad amounts. :)
 
Joe Kleber said:
YOU did.
Click to expand...

Joe, I know I did, I even said so two posts ago: "Hell, "criteria" is a word from my post, not his." I am not trying to hide anything here...

And, hence, in this thread, and in earlier ones, both Jarred and I tried to clarify priorities and clear up misconceptions. I am truly sorry some posts were read not as they were intended. Last thing I wanted to do today was dig up old posts to see what was said when, trust me. My wife shook her head and went to bed two hours ago...

Remember, forged folks paid a premium. $10,000 worth. "If I had known that Forged got priority, I would have gone Forged, not Woven" is what I am hearing, right?

So, hypothetically speaking, if anyone feels cheated or mislead who has a Woven order AND a VV pre-order, would it level the playing field if you now paid the extra $10,000 to get your timestamp in the Forged queue, not the Woven one? Would the Forged folks who paid that 1.5 years ago feel okay with that?

Again, I could be wrong here (and as I type this, I know people will be searching like hell to see), did the priority of Forged version Woven get stated before or after VV window closed? If after, how can you say "If I had known that Forged got priority, I would have gone Forged, not Woven"? That is like saying "If I had known the Grand Cherokee was going on sale now, I would have not bought it four months ago." It's true...but you didn't know. Unless you have a Flux Capacitor...
 
Jesus... Let Brent go to bed. If you think you deserve priority over Forged you should have payed for that over Woven. Were all waiting. Cameras are coming out. Were all lucky to get these upgrades. Its gonna happen
 
Brent@RED said:
Other WEAPON customers with VV orders have asked similar questions.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...a-new-Weapon&p=1534514&viewfull=1#post1534514
Excerpt: "And of course, when the 8K rolls out, the Forged are going to be first in line for those as well."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...pping-Update&p=1536808&viewfull=1#post1536808
Excerpt: "Forged orders take priority for the 8K sensor after 8K ordering opens up again once the initial first batch of 8K orders has been notified."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-Weapon-Shipping-Update&p=1537468#post1537468
Excerpt: "New Forged orders don't push out everyone that already has an order in for 8K, New Forged orders can't even order the 8K right now.... I thought that was clear. The Forged upgrade price does not include the 8K sensor. As I said new Forged orders don't push the existing orders out after we start shipping.

Everyone that purchased 8K @ NAB your orders are locked in and you are in that batch. 8K orders are closed till those start shipping. Forged Weapons do get priority once 8K orders open up again, but thats not until all those that already ordered the 8K have been sorted.

That would be a super dick move for us to take all the 8K sensors from that limited first batch that already have the names of those people on them that threw down for 8K @ NAB and give them to a bunch of random other guys that didn't just because they paid up."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...Dragon-8K-VV&p=1649953&viewfull=1#post1649953
Excerpt: "If you are an existing 8K VV pre-order, we will contact you in order of pre-order date/time stamp with the opportunity to move to HELIUM S35 until your number is up in queue for 8K VV. Please do not contact us to "reserve" that or anything. It will be an automatic reach out from us at the appropriate time. As Jarred said, plan on this kicking off in October."

To be clear, even from the first post I listed above, Forged has priority over Woven. As everyone knows, prior confusion was when - and we have not yet - re-open VV orders, new Forged orders would not leap frog Woven with earlier time stamps. I think you have to take that into context...

So, for both 'HELIUM no charge upgrades to those with VV orders' - and with VV upgrades themselves, it will be Forged by timestamp then Woven by timestamp. Hope that clears it up...
Click to expand...

If you guys go to this sort of complexity just for selling your tech I wonder how incredibly more complex an engineering meeting looks at your HQ when you discuss the future of camera tech :D
 
Hi,

I just get this reply from Azule EU for the 0% financing program :


"Thank you for your recent proposal. Your request has been carefully considered and unfortunately the proposal has been declined at this point in time.

Many apologies we have been unable to assist on this occasion.

Kind regards"



 Any Advice?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Blair, thanks for bringing up that little chestnut. I was wondering about that too.

...not trying to sound like entitled whiners here. I think the whole VV situation and super low production yields have to be completely maddening.
Click to expand...
100% agree.

I was at NAB and purchased the vv in the early mourning, I actually was asking questions at the RED NAB booth and forged was merely some pretty colors for a unnamed price if you went to talk to Jarred(so anyone saying anything like forged has priority over woven is just BS). I also ordered as B camera as magnesium, for when the VV arrived but with this update magnesium is end of life before I ever even have my A camera, with a limited 15k to upgrade on a schedule that doesn't match up with my production and also drops the concept that dsmc 2 is upgrade since that cost is really a brain replacement.

On the good side the weapon dragon sensor is a huge improvement over the epic dragon so I can see using the weapons for traditional camera uses for at least 2 years. My new camera purchase though will not be with RED, because I need time lines delivered to production schedules, primarily with me dealing with moving most of my production to VR with traditional distribution as secondary consideration.
 
Brent we all know these things are challenging and appreciate your help. You guys do a great job! and I'll wait however long it takes for my VV, and I am sorry I constantly reach out to you and Kevin about it since NAB 15 but I am just excited as are we all.. Thanks so much for the 8k S35 program for us VV guys, we really appreciate it despite the wait!
 
Brent,
Sorry if my post cost you sleep, I'd guess you could use some this week ;-) and apologies to Kelly as well. I hope my earlier posts were not taken as accusations of any kind.

As I have stated before, it is more than a little frustrating for VV waiters who threw down pre-payments 18 months ago to see so many people out shooting S35 Helium 8K before us. That's human nature. I get the big picture, stocking up built Epic-Ws on dedicated lines allowed you to take a far bigger chunk out of your backorder list quickly, than any strategy that involved swapping sensors one by one. I'm not pissed off, I don't have an axe to grind and I recognize that the whole upgrade program is done for our benefit.

I do, however, blame you for making such a great sensor that I'm jonesin' to shoot with it ASAP ;-) (sarcasm, in case that wasn't obvious)

Cheers - #19
 
All good, folks. I would be frustrated in your shoes with the wait. Heck, I am frustrated in mine. And I can see how certain posts could have been read not as they were intended, which only adds to the frustration. I get it. And I hope we are all cleared up now...

Silver lining is, first batch of VV-preorder folks are getting contacted by their reps as we speak with the HELIUM option....
 
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