Update......

[Mestizo Devon]

Any more footage?

 

[Matthew J]

Carbon has 8K boards in them, more memory, faster ASICS etc. Think the difference between a 4 core Intel i7 and a Xeon 15 core. they look the same smell the same and feel the same but one is way faster, and way harder to make. ( and in turn, more expensive ) Just like our sensors, out of X amount of asics that we make only a small fraction of them end up being capable of that highest performance. The internals are the bulk of the price difference between the carbon and whatever metal is used in the body.

Is there any way to upgrade the boards just enough to do 4k ProRes? I don't have any interest in going to 8K or using 33x33 LUT's, but 4k ProRes 4k would be useful for some of my clients. But it's not another $15k worth unfortunately. If it's crazy more horsepower needed, I understand, I just want to know that's the case

 

[Matthew Quinn]

ha ha my hands are probably twice the size of normal people so that wouldn't be good but here is a size reference I just took just for you

:

so hot! is that a new 512GB mini mag? any chance the 120 will be a shiny color?

 

[Milan Spasic]

Carbon has 8K boards in them, more memory, faster ASICS etc. Think the difference between a 4 core Intel i7 and a Xeon 15 core. they look the same smell the same and feel the same but one is way faster, and way harder to make. ( and in turn, more expensive ) Just like our sensors, out of X amount of asics that we make only a small fraction of them end up being capable of that highest performance. The internals are the bulk of the price difference between the carbon and whatever metal is used in the body.

Thanks Jarred.

I understand the difference in the internals, was just wondering why isn't it possible to put the faster ASICS and 8k boards in the Mg/Alu body?

Priced accordingly of course.

Is this a business decision or a technical one?

I think this is what's confusing everybody.

Cheers!

Milan

 

[jordan levy]

Rehoused STM 24mm 2.8 Canon. Good little lens optically, stupidly cheap and small and light and has pretty good little lens motors in it made for video. I made it for my Gimbal (hand and air ) because I hated how the manual focus ring would sometimes turn during flight and ruin the shot and taping it down seemed so ghetto and I hated how how if you looked at these plastic lenses wrong they would break. So I took it apart, remachined all the externals out of millspec aluminum and titanium, took the manual focus ring off, left the STM motors for iris and focus in there, and I do everything through the built in wireless control on the Raven via Foolcontrol (or via the rotator dial on the sidekick) Funny thing is that it turned out so awesome Im using it even for tripod work.

um, wow. im so glad we have a technician running RED, that is outstanding. can the first 10 orders for raven get one? jk!
or maybe red can get into the EF lens game again for specialty uses
im definitely looking to stay small on this baby, have my focal lengths covered in sharp internally focussing lenses, but then have a small set of vintage primes for artistic purposes. im hoping sigma comes out with another parfocal zoom to compliment the 18-35, like a 50-135. then i can sell my big ugly white non parfocal 70-200.

so WAIT, there are rotator dials on the side kick for focus and exposure?

 

[Maik Müller]

Rehoused STM 24mm 2.8 Canon. Good little lens optically, stupidly cheap and small and light and has pretty good little lens motors in it made for video. I made it for my Gimbal (hand and air ) because I hated how the manual focus ring would sometimes turn during flight and ruin the shot and taping it down seemed so ghetto and I hated how how if you looked at these plastic lenses wrong they would break. So I took it apart, remachined all the externals out of millspec aluminum and titanium, took the manual focus ring off, left the STM motors for iris and focus in there, and I do everything through the built in wireless control on the Raven via Foolcontrol (or via the rotator dial on the sidekick) Funny thing is that it turned out so awesome Im using it even for tripod work.

Well, yes, that sounds and looks awesome. Great idea. You know what is coming next?

 

[Brent Carter]

What is the production cost difference between Mg and Carbon bodies? This would be great to know in order to understand this better.

I think we need an inbetweener camera that would have Mg/Alu body with performance of the Carbon, without the costly bling.

Guys, please go back and read the prior posts from Jarred and I in this thread. Already has been answered 9 ways till Tuesday...

 

[Milan Spasic]

Guys, please go back and read the prior posts from Jarred and I in this thread. Already has been answered 9 ways till Tuesday...

Brent, please read the question again.

I know that only the slower/cheaper boards will be put in the Mg.

The question was WHY?

Why no Mg with the performance of C, that is priced accordingly?

I understand if you don't want to answer this but at least tell us as much so we can shut up.

Thanks!

 

[Brent Carter]

Milan, we have said that the boards are driving the cost, not the material (woven CF versus Mg). If we put the CF board set in the Mg brain, it would retail for the same price as the woven CF.

 

[Elsie N]

Brent, please read the question again.

I know that only the slower/cheaper boards will be put in the Mg.

The question was WHY?

Why no Mg with the performance of C, that is priced accordingly?

I understand if you don't want to answer this but at least tell us as much so we can shut up.

Thanks!

Please excuse me if I am interjecting into your attempt to get a definitive closure answer, but from an objective observer I recall Jarred saying months ago that Mg Weapon would be eligible to continue on the upgrade path when the next round of sensors are unveiled.

This upgrade is for form factor and the 8k sensor getting made and put in service is an expensive, tediously slow business. They probably do not want beau coup 8k sensors sold so they are making it a premium package option. This may also be a dry run to get a handle on what they are looking at when the next sensor upgrade happens. The 8k sensor is not technically a new sensor... just a new cut of the silicon wafer.

Hope this was useful. Brent, if any of the above is wrong, delete this post... or any of my posts that may be perceived as annoying.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Milan, we have said that the boards are driving the cost, not the material (woven CF versus Mg). If we put the CF board set in the Mg brain, it would retail for the same price as the woven CF.

thanks for clarifying this for us curious folks...i figured as much, damn does 4k prores and better LUTs screw me or what? i dont even think i can sublease an MG is my main issue, my favorite rental facility told me they don't want them at NAB, but hoping they changed their minds... sure would be cheaper to go MG vs CF, and with such a insignificant difference in specs since i have a rocket x anyway it just seems kind of odd they won't sublease MGs as well, so hopefully i can convince them otherwise but if not looks like i'll be going all the way to CF for sure...

as for the second part of my question any idea yet how soon you will phase out the dragon-> weapon program? and can you confirm that dragons that aren't weapon form factor really can upgrade next sensor time? cuz if so i won't feel as rushed i think to do it now, vs wait and see but its tough without knowing more for us guys on the fence financially... I'm going to call up finance places tomorrow, the other issue I'm having is lots of places dont seem to want to finance an upgrade, just a new sale... but yea i got the liquidity I'm just trying to grab multiple toys and trying to figure this all out, i dont want to prioritize other stuff if my limited weapon window will disappear on me, so the more notice the better for when the lines will be closing (like once I'm emailed next month how long do i really have to get the 30k plus accessory costs together for CF?)...thanks

 

[Phil Holland]

yup... lots of them and all helicoils incase you fuck em up

Don't take this the wrong way, but I totally love you guys for that

Thank you.

 

[Phil Holland]

so hot! is that a new 512GB mini mag? any chance the 120 will be a shiny color?

The 512GB and 1TB (recently) has had a color change to red as they are slightly faster media than the 120GB and 240GB MINI-MAGs.

 

[Jordan Buck]

Just a question, I had to step out of my MG upgrade to free up some cash flow (wedding) but am ready to get back on the weapon bandwagon... is my quickest route still upgrade, or buy new?

 

[Jarred Land]

um, wow. im so glad we have a technician running RED, that is outstanding. can the first 10 orders for raven get one? jk!
or maybe red can get into the EF lens game again for specialty uses
im definitely looking to stay small on this baby, have my focal lengths covered in sharp internally focussing lenses, but then have a small set of vintage primes for artistic purposes. im hoping sigma comes out with another parfocal zoom to compliment the 18-35, like a 50-135. then i can sell my big ugly white non parfocal 70-200.

so WAIT, there are rotator dials on the side kick for focus and exposure?

Yes there is one click click rotating knob on the sidecick you can use for focus, and I use 2 of the programable user buttons up / down for iris.

 

[jordan levy]

Yes there is one click click rotating knob on the sidecick you can use for focus, and I use 2 of the programable user buttons up / down for iris.

very interesting, thank you for your answer. cant wait to hear about the more bits coming out!

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Please excuse me if I am interjecting into your attempt to get a definitive closure answer, but from an objective observer I recall Jarred saying months ago that Mg Weapon would be eligible to continue on the upgrade path when the next round of sensors are unveiled.

This is something we who paid for the upgraded to MG Weapon at NAB believed to be true (at least I don't believe we were all hallucinating). I knew it would make fiscal sense to pay for the MG upgrades even though we didn't know exactly what we would be getting...however, it was understood there would be a path to 8K.

For us, we want to be able to get to 8K. From what I'm understanding here the boards in the Forged and Woven Weapons are the main price difference regardless of whether we're talking MG or AL.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

So I took it apart, remachined all the externals out of millspec aluminum and titanium, took the manual focus ring off, left the STM motors for iris and focus in there, and I do everything through the built in wireless control on the Raven via Foolcontrol (or via the rotator dial on the sidekick) Funny thing is that it turned out so awesome Im using it even for tripod work.

wait till you get the latitude focus knobs and various RF hand units working with these lenses and foolcontrol

 

[Elsie N]

This is something we who paid for the upgraded to MG Weapon at NAB believed to be true (at least I don't believe we were all hallucinating). I knew it would make fiscal sense to pay for the MG upgrades even though we didn't know exactly what we would be getting...however, it was understood there would be a path to 8K.

For us, we want to be able to get to 8K. From what I'm understanding here the boards in the Forged and Woven Weapons are the main price difference regardless of whether we're talking MG or AL.

Keep in mind that in addition to the more expensive boards and ASIC, the 8k sensor alone could cost some $20,000.

FWIW, I personally would like to see an affordable path to 8k in the MG Weapon. My thinking is that the more cameras shooting 8k, the more chance there may be some way to finish and exhibit in 8k outside of just in Japan.

 

[Mark Toia]

Once you shoot the 8K its really hard to go back.. The VV sensor size with this much resolution, dynamic range and frame rates is a monumental leap on every level. It really is the king of ALL cameras.

I think I just air punched.. !

I'm just going to wait for 8K.
I started with 2 4k R1's for 4 years which changed our business for the better.
Then onto a few 6k EPIC's for the last 4 years and never doubted my choice for a single moment.
My next move will be directly into the 8k DRAGON phase.

Decision made. Seems like my logical movement through RED time and space.

Thanks Jarred.
I'm excited.

sidecick

Sidecick???.. have I been living under a rock?

Ive gotta slow down and get back on the forum more.