The Update Thread

[Mark van Coller]

The news form Phil about the Rocket X and now from Jarred about the Epic W. Things keep getting better.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

How about an August update? I've been digging this monthly update thing...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Factory is factory and you'll notice it can't be deleted. It's a good reference to have in case you get in a crazy spot where you've encountered say a laser strike or something like that. It basically is the "control" as that's what the calibration looked like at the factory.




Sensor Calibration, all the things it does, and the calMap are applied before compression of course.

RED's tech is proprietary, so you won't be digging much deeper than that and getting too many answers.


The biggest change in the behavior of Sensor Calibration is the addition of Auto Calibration to DSMC2 bodies. This new "way" provides approximately a 10 stop range and doesn't require you to create individual passes for each shutterspeed. What happens is when you change the shutterspeed outside of the current range, in about 7-12 seconds the updated calibration is applied (which you can see on the on-screen overlay as the E will go from yellow to green typically) and you can shoot away.

This pretty much changes the game for practical shooting situations as people switch between shutterspeeds and frame rates. There is a temperature range that's calibrated as well. When you're out of range with your temperature and exposure your T/E meter will alert you appropriately.

Of course I was only referring to the industry "standard" use of 3D noise removal. It's no longer priority since people started using it. It probably was when I came up with such a scheme, a very, very, very long time ago, but now even cheap chips have been using it for around a decade. There is likely not much to dig up between the sensor and the compression that adds more than percents to performance over what the industry has. However, the use of 3D noise removal before compression, or recording, is a controversial topic in digital cinema camera design. I am in a 100% favour of it's proper use, and it fills me with confidence in a product to see it. As simple as that, not.much digging involved. I dont suppose I'm going to get an apology about it. The use of it immediately boosts the quality of your compression. Another great buying factor.

 

[Josh Becker]

Heh heh no Epic-W will not be 15k for new customers... It's price point will be north of Epic Dragon. It's pretty awesome.

But.. if you are an existing RED camera owner.. you will have a great path to Epic-W.

So, the price of the Epic-X Dragon w/ SSD and mount is currently about $27.5k. It's great to hear a rough ballpark on price, I think that with the price + the reality that Helium will take a while to ship out to upgraders first, I feel much better about getting my Scarlet-W in the near future!

 

[jordan levy]

So, the price of the Epic-X Dragon w/ SSD and mount is currently about $27.5k. It's great to hear a rough ballpark on price, I think that with the price + the reality that Helium will take a while to ship out to upgraders first, I feel much better about getting my Scarlet-W in the near future!

yeah it sounds like it will be $30k + for epic-w, so at 10k for a scarlet-w its still a hell of a deal.

 

[Jose Mojica]

So, the price of the Epic-X Dragon w/ SSD and mount is currently about $27.5k. It's great to hear a rough ballpark on price, I think that with the price + the reality that Helium will take a while to ship out to upgraders first, I feel much better about getting my Scarlet-W in the near future!

I've seen the Epic-X Dragon for $16,900 on eBay, Refurbished, with Transfer Fee Waived, and with accessories. So if that's the case, which path is faster and more cost effective to get to Helium? (Notice I didn't jump on one of the Refurbished Epic-X Dragon cameras because I still feel the Scarlet-W is a better investment, but it's interesting to consider.)

 

[Jarred Land]

How about an August update? I've been digging this monthly update thing...

not much more to report past what i already have last week or two.. any further update would pretty much start with "thank you" and end with "for waiting ".


As for the RocketX and Helium.. as you know we have been focusing our efforts on GPU decode for the last while.

So yes Rocket-X plus a good GPU is gonna get you around 24fps Full 8K on Helium.

But you can also get close to that full 8K 24fps with a new Titan-X GPU and Intel's largests core Xeon in a dual cpu box without the Rocket-X.

I love you Rocket-X but in a year or two I think we should be at the point where GPU + CPU puts you out to pasture.

Nvidia is just dominating right now and their GPU's are advancing so quickly it's the horse I would bet on.

 

[Josh Becker]

I've seen the Epic-X Dragon for $16,900 on eBay, Refurbished, with Transfer Fee Waived, and with accessories. So if that's the case, which path is faster and more cost effective to get to Helium? (Notice I didn't jump on one of the Refurbished Epic-X Dragon cameras because I still feel the Scarlet-W is a better investment, but it's interesting to consider.)

If you could score a really good deal, you might end up saving money (or getting in earlier with an upgrade vs a standard off-the-shelf order) but a big thing to consider is that you'll need adapters (or just need new) for various accessories, such as monitor, plates, expander modules, etc. Those costs could outweigh the benefits. I'll just stick with my Scarlet-W preorder and take comfort in knowing my accessory investments could transition to a future Helium camera.

 

[Jan Schuster]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed there will be an Epic MX to Scarlet-W upgrade path. Still don't know what the cost of Epic MX to Epic-W is going to be but if there was a cheaper option to get into a DSMC2 I bet a lot more people would be upgrading their Epic MX cameras. Myself included.

 

[Reuben Evans]

not much more to report past what i already have last week or two.. any further update would pretty much start with "thank you" and end with "for waiting ".


As for the RocketX and Helium.. as you know we have been focusing our efforts on GPU decode for the last while.

So yes Rocket-X plus a good GPU is gonna get you around 24fps Full 8K on Helium.

But you can also get close to that full 8K 24fps with a new Titan-X GPU and Intel's largests core Xeon in a dual cpu box without the Rocket-X.

I love you Rocket-X but in a year or two I think we should be at the point where GPU + CPU puts you out to pasture.

Nvidia is just dominating right now and their GPU's are advancing so quickly it's the horse I would bet on.

i just hope accelerating r3ds doesn't become dependent on CUDA. I wonder what kind of boost comes from OpenCL on AMD cards vs CUDA on NVIDIA cards. (I have a quad core Mac Pro with Dual D700s and a RRX)

 

[Scot Yount]

i just hope accelerating r3ds doesn't become dependent on CUDA. I wonder what kind of boost comes from OpenCL on AMD cards vs CUDA on NVIDIA cards. (I have a quad core Mac Pro with Dual D700s and a RRX)

I wonder this too. I also have the D700s in my MacPro 12 core.

Edit: Which I should say, play most 6K Dragon material at full debayer in REDCINE-X Pro pretty much in real time. (that's from the card in USB 3.0, and even better over old school Thunderbolt 1 from the Promise Pegasus R6 in RAID 5) Works well in DaVinci for me as well and although I can't run Octane for my Cinema 4D projects, I still get some pretty good render times, which is very important in my little shop.

 

[Jarred Land]

I wonder this too. I also have the D700s in my MacPro 12 core.

Edit: Which I should say, play most 6K Dragon material at full debayer in REDCINE-X Pro pretty much in real time. (that's from the card in USB 3.0, and even better over old school Thunderbolt 1 from the Promise Pegasus R6 in RAID 5) Works well in DaVinci for me as well and although I can't run Octane for my Cinema 4D projects, I still get some pretty good render times, which is very important in my little shop.

Open GL works fine... It's just not as efficient as Cuda. Even if you compare the $3000 D700 to Nvidia's consumer $600 GTX 1080. the number of SPUs are relatively close but the SPU performance is almost 3x as powerful ( all while consuming 40% less watts )

 

[John Brennick]

not much more to report past what i already have last week or two.. any further update would pretty much start with "thank you" and end with "for waiting ".


As for the RocketX and Helium.. as you know we have been focusing our efforts on GPU decode for the last while.

So yes Rocket-X plus a good GPU is gonna get you around 24fps Full 8K on Helium.

But you can also get close to that full 8K 24fps with a new Titan-X GPU and Intel's largests core Xeon in a dual cpu box without the Rocket-X.

I love you Rocket-X but in a year or two I think we should be at the point where GPU + CPU puts you out to pasture.

Nvidia is just dominating right now and their GPU's are advancing so quickly it's the horse I would bet on.

Hey Jarred,

Just wanted to say WOW! The files that Erich is showing off of the Helium is INCREDIBLE! I cant remember a sensor that takes such a huge leap like the Helium does. You guys NAILED it and should be incredibly proud. You've got an amazing team there! Again, really fantastic and blown away by how clean the R3D's are.... Helium is genuinely a special special camera! Alll of the RED's are.... but man... Helium is something truly remarkable. Great work to all parties involved!

 

[Adam Montville]

Open GL works fine... It's just not as efficient as Cuda. Even if you compare the $3000 D700 to Nvidia's consumer $600 GTX 1080. the number of SPUs are relatively close but the SPU performance is almost 3x as powerful ( all while consuming 40% less watts )

Ever get the "Film Look" to work under CUDA? Always had to keep it on OpenGL for that filter alone.

 

[Phil Holland]

Ever get the "Film Look" to work under CUDA? Always had to keep it on OpenGL for that filter alone.

I've tested that on 970s, 980s, and the previous generation Titan-X. All of them work with Film Look.

 

[Justin Gum]

I'm not sure if this has been talked about before in this thread, but I am wondering....

I ordered my Weapon Magnesium back in June. Still waiting for it to be delivered to me. My thoughts are: Should I just cancel my Weapon order and wait the Epic-W? I'm not hurting for any gigs at the moment. All this talk of Helium, and seeing the footage, has me super stoked about 8K s35 and I'm just wondering if I don't have my camera now, might as well wait a few months longer. No?

What's a good option? Keep my Weapon order alive and wait until I receive it and then upgrade later or just cancel the order and wait for Epic-W / Weapon w Helium?

Not sure what I should do.

-Justin

 

[Patrick Grossien]

Heh heh no Epic-W will not be 15k for new customers... It's price point will be north of Epic Dragon. It's pretty awesome.

But.. if you are an existing RED camera owner.. you will have a great path to Epic-W.

Sweet! That sounds like it includes us Scarlet-D owners

 

[Elsie N]

Sweet! That sounds like it includes us Scarlet-D owners

And maybe even RAVEN owners?

 

[Adam Montville]

Sweet! That sounds like it includes us Scarlet-D owners

Which is what's painful, lol. Do I pull out of line for the Scarlet-W, and wait til Oct? Or if I have the Scarlet-W, I'm assuming the bump up to Epic-W will be cheaper?

My expectations are still ~10k if you have Scarlet-W in hand, but for Scarlet-D, I'm guessing it will cost much more? (Remember Scarlet-D only being $5,000 credit for Weapon upgrade)

 

[Filipe Abreu]

Which is what's painful, lol. Do I pull out of line for the Scarlet-W, and wait til Oct? Or if I have the Scarlet-W, I'm assuming the bump up to Epic-W will be cheaper?

My Exceptions are still ~10k if you have Scarlet-W in hand, but for Scarlet-D, I'm guessing it will cost much more? (Remember Scarlet-D only being $5,000 credit for Weapon upgrade)

that is my question too ...