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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Brody_B said:
Seems almost like Red is switching to Helium 8k cause its easier/faster to make than 8k vv.
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8K is not the only reason to go to VV, and I'm sure there will be a VV version of Helium as well.
 
Rakesh Malik said:
The size difference alone will probably make it easier to get the yields up.
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Very true, But my question is how does that speed up Raven/S-W lines? cause it gets the very small amount of 8k vv guys out of the way converting to Helium?. Still need to make a shit ton of dragon sensors for Raven S-W and Weapon 6k orders.
 
Brody_B said:
Very true, But my question is how does that speed up Raven/S-W lines? cause it gets the very small amount of 8k vv guys out of the way converting to Helium?. Still need to make a shit ton of dragon sensors for Raven S-W and Weapon 6k orders.
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That I have no idea. The impression I got was that Red had more fabs coming online to fabricate Dragon sensors, assuming I didn't misunderstand Jarred's comments.
 
I don't really care for 8K, yes it's great to get a super sensor, but I'm more interested what it brings in terms of DR, highlight and shadow handling, color science etc. if it ain't bringing anything better than Dragon on that, or if it's limiting the current ability to shoot s35 at around 100fps, because of the resolution, we are talking about a resolution increase at the expense of framerate and some sensor size. I also think people forget about what 8K demands for post. You must bump up your computing power quite a bit with it and probably need to buy more SSD cards and you need more HDD space.

So while everyone is cheering I just want to do the numbers a bit. We get 8K at s35mm. Comparing to 8K VV, which can scale down to normal s35mm for high speed and still manage to do a nice scale down to 4K, you will essentially scale down to s16mm in order to reach some high speed capabilities with the 8K s35mm Helium. So even if you scale down to 6K on the s35mm sensor you will loose the ability for high speed with wide angle lenses. This is of course as long as the Helium sensor doesn't have any magic that makes the Weapon MG processor be able to handle 8K s35mm at 100 fps, which feels doubtful at any reasonable compression. On top of that, if you want to have s35mm as your format you will need to shoot at 8K all the time. The good thing about the Dragon 6K sensor is that at 6K it's a bit larger, meaning that you can scale down quite a bit before it starts to look "non-35mm". Daredevil shot at 4K and many episodic series might want to shoot at lower resolutions in order for post production to be able to handle the vast amount of material. Meaning that if they want to do that they essentially get a 16mm look if they want to scale down on resolution.

I hope that Helium brings much more than just the resolution, because when looking at this and then looking at a normal production and it's needs and costs, it starts to feel a little bit scary. I get that Bay and productions like Transformers 5 won't have any problem handling it, but it's gonna be interesting to see the real specs when they are released.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I hope that Helium brings much more than just the resolution.
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That wouldn't be disruptive. I think at this point we can all be certain that RED wouldn't be RED if there weren't some incredible surprises lurking in the shadows, waiting to pounce.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I don't really care for 8K, yes it's great to get a super sensor, but I'm more interested what it brings in terms of DR, highlight and shadow handling, color science etc. if it ain't bringing anything better than Dragon on that, or if it's limiting the current ability to shoot s35 at around 100fps, because of the resolution, we are talking about a resolution increase at the expense of framerate and some sensor size. I also think people forget about what 8K demands for post. You must bump up your computing power quite a bit with it and probably need to buy more SSD cards and you need more HDD space.

So while everyone is cheering I just want to do the numbers a bit. We get 8K at s35mm. Comparing to 8K VV, which can scale down to normal s35mm for high speed and still manage to do a nice scale down to 4K, you will essentially scale down to s16mm in order to reach some high speed capabilities with the 8K s35mm Helium. So even if you scale down to 6K on the s35mm sensor you will loose the ability for high speed with wide angle lenses. This is of course as long as the Helium sensor doesn't have any magic that makes the Weapon MG processor be able to handle 8K s35mm at 100 fps, which feels doubtful at any reasonable compression. On top of that, if you want to have s35mm as your format you will need to shoot at 8K all the time. The good thing about the Dragon 6K sensor is that at 6K it's a bit larger, meaning that you can scale down quite a bit before it starts to look "non-35mm". Daredevil shot at 4K and many episodic series might want to shoot at lower resolutions in order for post production to be able to handle the vast amount of material. Meaning that if they want to do that they essentially get a 16mm look if they want to scale down on resolution.

I hope that Helium brings much more than just the resolution, because when looking at this and then looking at a normal production and it's needs and costs, it starts to feel a little bit scary. I get that Bay and productions like Transformers 5 won't have any problem handling it, but it's gonna be interesting to see the real specs when they are released.
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Well we don't know anything yet. With 3.65 micron pixels (known size) and S35 format (announced format) we get 24.9mm / 0,00365 = 6821 pixels large. So it's still a bit mysterious, as Jarred announced S35 @8k. That doesn't seem right for the moment.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I don't really care for 8K, yes it's great to get a super sensor, but I'm more interested what it brings in terms of DR, highlight and shadow handling, color science etc. if it ain't bringing anything better than Dragon on that, or if it's limiting the current ability to shoot s35 at around 100fps, because of the resolution, we are talking about a resolution increase at the expense of framerate and some sensor size. I also think people forget about what 8K demands for post. You must bump up your computing power quite a bit with it and probably need to buy more SSD cards and you need more HDD space.

So while everyone is cheering I just want to do the numbers a bit. We get 8K at s35mm. Comparing to 8K VV, which can scale down to normal s35mm for high speed and still manage to do a nice scale down to 4K, you will essentially scale down to s16mm in order to reach some high speed capabilities with the 8K s35mm Helium. So even if you scale down to 6K on the s35mm sensor you will loose the ability for high speed with wide angle lenses. This is of course as long as the Helium sensor doesn't have any magic that makes the Weapon MG processor be able to handle 8K s35mm at 100 fps, which feels doubtful at any reasonable compression. On top of that, if you want to have s35mm as your format you will need to shoot at 8K all the time. The good thing about the Dragon 6K sensor is that at 6K it's a bit larger, meaning that you can scale down quite a bit before it starts to look "non-35mm". Daredevil shot at 4K and many episodic series might want to shoot at lower resolutions in order for post production to be able to handle the vast amount of material. Meaning that if they want to do that they essentially get a 16mm look if they want to scale down on resolution.
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This is some really exciting news, can't wait to hear more about the helium sensors. But I do agree with Christoffer on what he said about 8K

Dan Kanes said:
Scarlet-W to Epic-W upgrade ?
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You can't go from Scarlet to Epic, but it does say that [FONT=&quot]SCARLET-W offers an upgrade path to WEAPON®,[/FONT] which I believe should lead to a path to 8K for S-W, or at least that's what I hoped for when I decided to go for the S-W.
 
Cool to hear about the next sensor... would be even cooler to have some idea when the camera I preordered last November might be ready (since switched to S-W). Seems like it's ranged between "a couple weeks" and "a couple months".. since March or so. I'm probably not the only one here in a fast-paced, competitive market being negatively affected by how late these are.
 
All over again :)
 
Hi guys, sorry to bother, I'm a bit confused.

Dec 17th upgrader from scarlet dragon to scarlet-w, is it ok that I'm waiting or should I call my rep.

Thanks
 
Carlo De Agostini said:
Hi guys, sorry to bother, I'm a bit confused.

Dec 17th upgrader from scarlet dragon to scarlet-w, is it ok that I'm waiting or should I call my rep.

Thanks
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I don't think that they've even started on December 10 preorders yet, so calling your rep probably won't get you any new info.
 
Samir Patel said:
Paging Dr. Phil Holland to please make a graph or flowchart to explain all of the new lines and sensors. Haha.
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As you wish:



Take special note that Helium 8K S35 is damn near the same height of Dragon 6K.
 
Phil Holland said:
As you wish:

Take special note that Helium 8K S35 is damn near the same height of Dragon 6K.
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Doesn't that make it slightly larger than S35 then? I thought 5.5K on Dragon was very close to S35.

Edit: I see on the chart that Helium is quite a bit wider aspect than S35. Guess that's where my confusion came from.
 
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Tom Greenberg said:
Doesn't that make it slightly larger than S35 then? I thought 5.5K on Dragon was very close to S35.
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Correct.

Super 35mm 4-perf Full Aperture has about a 31.1mm image circle.

Helium 8K S35 is about 33.8.

And yes, damn near every Super 35mm motion picture lens will cover that and/or 8K HD (32.2mm image circle).
 
Not really on topic with all the Helium chat, but:

Because so many people on here are desperately awaiting their Scarlet-W and Raven allocations, I'd like to offer a little something to maybe help ease the blow.

I too am waiting for my Scarlet-W, but in the meantime figured I could pick up all the accessories I was going to need for that, and then add in a used Scarlet-X brain, which will then become my B-cam.


I'm renting the Scarlet-X kit on Sharegrid when I'm not using it myself, and I'd like to offer a $1, 2-day rental of the kit, to up to 5 LA-based folks from Reduser who are waiting for their Scarlet-W or Raven allocation.

That way if you have a specific shoot that you were hoping to use your Scarlet-W or Raven for, you can at least get a Scarlet-X for virtually nothing. Or maybe you're a new Red user and just want to go out and shoot some stuff to get used to the interface, shooting raw, etc.


I've learned so much from this forum and this is my little way of paying it forward.


If you'd like to take advantage, please drop me an email - tom@longhaulfilms.com - with your shoot dates and we'll go from there. NB the camera is not available from July 25th to August 5th.
 
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