The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[Patrick Wieland]

I've been trying to look through this thread to find the answer. Someone asked me today on Instagram and it got me worrying…

In the process of building a housing for my rig. Are you guys having heat issues? The housing is made out of Acrylic.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Well fellas, it looks as though it's true. Peter Jackson decided to use GoPro footage for the underwater bits in The Hobbit instead of a fine housing from one of you folks. Apparently, I haven't seen it yet, it's quite easy to spot.

How many here would have shot that spot for a credit? Kinda sad to see GoPro picked over Epic UW. Also shows the lack of marketing, sponsorship and demos we currently have in the UW Housing game. How many places in LA offer a free demo of the UW housings before purchasing? If it's good, we'll use it but we have to test it to see if it will fit our needs. I've wanted to do a comprehensive test of all the options for quite sometime as I'm looking to find a nice fit for filming this summer. I won't waste anymore time with my GoPro. The videos that are out I appreciate, not quite hands on but helpful to narrow down the options.

Rudi, did you ever have a chance to put together the reviews you said you would nearly nine months ago in regards to Epic housing options?

Hi Will I am curious where you got this information about the UW scenes being shot on a GoPro...this seems preposterous?

 

[paulherrin]

it's a couple almost-second POV shots...

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Patrick, the Epic is very robust in this regard, but you must have enough internal volumetric efficiency wrt heat exchange, and that also means buoyancy issues that will change your design considerably. Plenty of experienced housing manufacturers on this thread to give you guidance in that regard, John Ellerbrock, Mike Hastings, to name two, both of them in the biz since before Pontius went solo.

As Johnny has pointed out, Dragon breathes at twice the temp that Epic does, more again to contend with.

 

[Patrick Wieland]

There should be plenty of air volume in my design.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Tom -- I agree with Johnny. Your work has value.

While we're on the subject Johnny, I'd like to solicit your opinion on something, anyone else out there please chime in.

I was recently contacted by executives at CBS 60 Minutes in New York, they were putting together a show on free diving, specifically with regard to Nick Mevoli, the free diver who perished last month in the Bahamas attempting to set a new world depth record using monofin.

I have footage of Nick from the Caribbean Cup last May, they were very interested to incorporate that into the piece. I FTP'd them watermarked footage, after seeing the Epic quality of the shots, were very enthusiastic about using it. The producer, who shall here go un-named, insisted on getting non-watermarked footage as a 'placeholder' for evaluation, I asked them about rates. I was actually willing to drop the the rates to minimum out of respect for Nick's death, in the end, they wanted the footage for free, in exchange for credits.

I said no, a production house of that magnitude shouldn't be using Tosh O. You Tube Freebies to get the job done, in my very humble opinion.

Was I wrong?

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Patrick,

Air volume will help, but the bigger issue is that acrylic is not a heat conductor, it's an insulator. So it's trapping heat inside rather than dissipating to the water.

My suggestion is to place an aluminum heat sink above the camera fan outlet, and couple that directly to the water. Don't obstruct the outlet, but let the air pass over fins. The more surface area you can pass the air the better.

J-

There should be plenty of air volume in my design.

 

[Will Keir]

Hey Ross. Love your avatar!

It's from another thread here on RU were people talk about the shot. More than that. It's an opportunity for me to express my disappointment in the lack of visibility with Epic Underwater housings options, reviews, places to demo units without buying them and issues with shooting the Epic platform underwater. I've been researching housings for the past two years and feel "stuck." Without a heavy organizational investment, I think we are seeing a lack of interest in shooting Epic UW and it's a concern.

When working on sets, I've discussed it with several DPs over the years. Their answer is to use another camera for anything UW. I believe it's a shame.

Here's more on the GoPro footage in the barrel scene of "The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug."

LINK HERE:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?52300-The-Hobbit/page78

an IMDB under technical specs to see if GoPro was included for a credit, results nothing, perhaps IMDB needs an update. I'll definitely look in the credits to see if they give GoPro some thanks.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?52300-The-Hobbit/page78

A google search results:
https://www.google.com/search?q=The...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Some comments here:
http://theredefined.com/2013/12/13/the-hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-reel-quick-review/

A discussion on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/BehindThrills/posts/10153623015565220

I'm seeing quote a few people that noticed the camera change. When you get a chance to see it, you'll probably recognize it straight away too.

Hi Will I am curious where you got this information about the UW scenes being shot on a GoPro...this seems preposterous?

My thoughts exactly!

this seems preposterous?

Johnny, I know where you are coming from and my compliments on holding firm to your value, it can be easy for others to forget about all the sacrifice it takes to be an UW shooter and the heart you expose to life for a willingness to accept difficult challenges. As we both know, in the willingness to sacrifice, we find connection to our core sense of our selves and values and a peace and clarity facing fear. Shooting UW addresses this.

I have some rivers where I am from, there cool, there home, they that draw me in every year. I just wanna get down there, safely, with a compact housing and shoot some images. I'll teach my son about the water, about the love for our planet. That's about all I need for now. Hopefully have some work to share and create. It just so happens I have some talent for making movies too. I appreciate what all you guys out there churning up bubbles do, the builders, the athletes, the shooters, the storytellers, the warriors of the rainbow.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Will -- what do you suggest be done to address your concerns?

Speaking for Gates, you have two options currently:

* Hire a kit for testing. 1/2 the rental fee applies toward a purchase.

* Visit Gates for a thorough kit review and training (or a trade show like NAB). We can arrange some pool tests, if you like.

Hey Ross. Love your avatar!

It's from another thread here on RU were people talk about the shot. More than that. It's an opportunity for me to express my disappointment in the lack of visibility with Epic Underwater housings options, reviews, places to demo units without buying them and issues with shooting the Epic platform underwater. I've been researching housings for the past two years and feel "stuck." Without a heavy organizational investment, I think we are seeing a lack of interest in shooting Epic UW and it's a concern.

When working on sets, I've discussed it with several DPs over the years. Their answer is to use another camera for anything UW. I believe it's a shame.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

I always took PJ for a perfectionist, using a GoPro on a show like the Hobbit is clearly a nod in the exact opposite direction. I've said before that the best compliment I can pay GoPro is that every diver should own one, but that said, it is not a professional tool. Turbulent, rushing water is an absolute killer on any compression scheme/codec, it is one of those things that will invariably result in pixelated, sh..t footage, the stuff that will lower the value of any show. Why he would use that when he has any tool available to him, even for a second long shot, can only be the result of ignorance, of not knowing what a delicate subject, and potentially problematic, the said turbulent water is.

And no, nobody should work for credit or donate footage to money-making entities. Been there, done that, never resulted in any leads or call backs.

Will,

If you've been agonizing two years over what housing to buy, then all I can surmise is, respectfully, that you do not need the housing that bad. Like you, I wish the UW market was more like regular camera gear rental market, where you could go somewhere and get your hands on, and compare different offers and so on. But it does not work that way unfortunately. So in the interest of actually getting your footage, you need to be more flexible. Right now, you have probably 4 options for Epic: Gates, Nauticam, Amphibico and Aquavideo. I remember you saying you need something much smaller/lighter than Gates, but in truth, the Rouge is about the same mass and the Rossa is indeed smaller, but still nowhere near DSLR small. You could get Mike Hastings at Aquavideo to make you a small cylindrical housing that would be both smaller and lighter than all others, cheaper as well, but would understandably lack the functionality/flexibility of the more complex counterparts. That's it, those are your options brother, plain and simple. All of those housings are owned by members of this thread, so why not take a trip and get your hands on them and make a decision? Yes, it would be costlier than getting to test them for free, but hey, that's the reality of our field, so either you play along and start shooting glorious underwater footage (and believe me, nothing can compare to the feeling of seeing the exact image you had in your mind magically appear on that monitor, happening in front of you while you capture it without losing focus, staying in frame and slightly moving around to get the perfect composition) or you continue to wish things were a different way and not experience the awesomeness described above...

My two miserable cents, for whatever it is worth...

 

[david cheung]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvU9PvLiS7Q

Link to b-roll fooatge. Notice at 5.37 clearly shows a 3D rig inside a housing.

No 3D go-pro to be seen. I could be wrong.

cheers

David

 

[Will Keir]

John. The truth told by many across the world is your housing is excellent and your customer service is top notch. I've seen some picture and the size and weight is prohibitive for the work I'd would be doing in shallow rivers.

Arranging a pool test is a an excellent option for potential buyers. Is there a more compact option available?

Will -- what do you suggest be done to address your concerns?

Speaking for Gates, you have two options currently:

* Hire a kit for testing. 1/2 the rental fee applies toward a purchase.

* Visit Gates for a thorough kit review and training (or a trade show like NAB). We can arrange some pool tests, if you like.

It's already been two years! Longer, I was researching housings back in R1 days! If I was the only one who cared that would be one thing, I'd probably just rent. When I make these posts it's not because me along, there is a community, unseen, unheard watching as well.

Will,

If you've been agonizing two years over what housing to buy, then all I can surmise is, respectfully, that you do not need the housing that bad.

Which housings are available for rent?

All of those housings are owned by members of this thread, so why not take a trip and get your hands on them and make a decision? Yes, it would be costlier than getting to test them for free, but hey, that's the reality of our field, so either you play along and start shooting glorious underwater footage

WOW. That's a huge 4' cube they have in the water. Not a housing I've seen around before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvU9PvLiS7Q

Link to b-roll fooatge. Notice at 5.37 clearly shows a 3D rig inside a housing.

No 3D go-pro to be seen. I could be wrong.

cheers

David

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

That depends on what you consider 'compact' Will. The camera dictates a certain size for underwater use. If you are looking for a glove fit, that housing will have other issues like heat and very negative buoyancy. If this type of housing is required for your application (shallow rivers) , then it seems you may need a custom design to suit. We do such things routinely when a specialized application comes along. It's a (relatively) expensive proposition.

But perhaps a modification of DEEP EPIC might work? Tell me more specifics about what you seek, and let's see what can be done. Contact me by PM please.

John. The truth told by many across the world is your housing is excellent and your customer service is top notch. I've seen some picture and the size and weight is prohibitive for the work I'd would be doing in shallow rivers.

Arranging a pool test is a an excellent option for potential buyers. Is there a more compact option available?

.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

My two miserable cents, for whatever it is worth

well, I've said it before, I'll say it again.

one does not come to this thread for empty accolade, but brutal honest truth.

ive seen Rudi come up against the best in the industry, in his area of expertise, angels fear to tread.

i really didn't like it at first, but once you have decided to shoot the best, then Rudi is your best friend. Take no names, kick ass, balls to the wall.

if the kitchen is too hot, well, you all know how that goes...

 

[Michael Maes]

well, I've said it before, I'll say it again.

one does not come to this thread for empty accolade, but brutal honest truth.

ive seen Rudi come up against the best in the industry, in his area of expertise, angels fear to tread.

i really didn't like it at first, but once you have decided to shoot the best, then Rudi is your best friend. Take no names, kick ass, balls to the wall.

if the kitchen is too hot, well, you all know how that goes...

Believe me: Rudi is an amazing guy with a sh|tload of knowledge and an (almost) endless patience! )

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Thank you gentlemen (I'll be accepting contributions to the RCLF, not a new R3D color space but the Rudi Christmas Liquor Fund).

Do onto others as you would want others do onto you. Thread with directness, be unambiguous, bypass nonsense, but most importantly, be respectful. Be critical of your work before you dare be critical of others'. Life is too short not to spend it in harmony. None of us is above anybody else, we all have something to learn from one another. What we do is unique in its beauty but also in its level of difficulty and lack of rewards, it takes someone special to dedicate the one and only life we're given to this field. That makes us all brothers. Whenever you get back home after being pounded by the waves for hours and check your footage to find nothing remarkable, remember the only people that really understand you are us, your fellow shooters, for we too have been there. Let us all be frank and honest for that's the best help we can give, but foremost, let us foster an atmosphere of peace, love and respect among ourselves. That's what I try to keep in mind when I interact with people. It is not always easy but it is doable.

Now, about that magenta issue, what if RED had a surprise for us for the Holidays?

 

[Will Keir]

Here's a question for you Underwater Shooters and Builders:

Heat Dissipation: Carbon Fiber Dragon vs Standard AL Dragon

Wondering if the standard body, AL I believe will dissipation heat better than the Carbon Fiber Dragon for UW work. Thanks for your comments, thoughts and scientific explanations if possible.

 

[Will Keir]

Thought about these words the last 24 hours and had a request:

Since we are entering a celebration period with the holidays, a time we share with friends and family, a time we watch a lot of internet videos too and since we all are here to acquire fulfilling images of underwater life and excitement and to encourage each other; Rudi do you have any footage of a project you might be happy enough to share with us on RU?

Would love to go into the new year watching footage of the R1 or Epic. I see screen shots from time to time but it would be great if anyone had videos to share and build on the excitement with the Dragon sensor release, to see where we've been and to look forward to the future of RED UW shooting.

Happy and a safe holiday season to all my friends around the world shooting!

Thank you gentlemen (I'll be accepting contributions to the RCLF, not a new R3D color space but the Rudi Christmas Liquor Fund).

Do onto others as you would want others do onto you. Thread with directness, be unambiguous, bypass nonsense, but most importantly, be respectful. Be critical of your work before you dare be critical of others'. Life is too short not to spend it in harmony. None of us is above anybody else, we all have something to learn from one another. What we do is unique in its beauty but also in its level of difficulty and lack of rewards, it takes someone special to dedicate the one and only life we're given to this field. That makes us all brothers. Whenever you get back home after being pounded by the waves for hours and check your footage to find nothing remarkable, remember the only people that really understand you are us, your fellow shooters, for we too have been there. Let us all be frank and honest for that's the best help we can give, but foremost, let us foster an atmosphere of peace, love and respect among ourselves. That's what I try to keep in mind when I interact with people. It is not always easy but it is doable.

Now, about that magenta issue, what if RED had a surprise for us for the Holidays?

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Will,

I see. No, I don't really have any Epic stuff to share, have not shot on RED for a while now, not since the current color issues started to appear more regularly. The show I've been working on for the past year, a 6 episode series, has been shot 95% of it on EX-1, so I can deliver the colors my client expects, with some RED shots here and there, but very few. Also, most of the shooting has been done while freediving and while the Gates EX-1 housings we use are definitely bulky, they are still lighter than the Deep Red housings. I have posted some short promo reels of that show here before, here are four pieces if you need to check my work: http://www.youtube.com/theamazingdives Writing, directing, editing, grading and 1/2 of the shooting done by me. It is not my best work, nor is it my worst, but it works in the context of what the pieces are about. I am looking forward to getting done with this series so I can move onto a couple of new projects I've been prepping for. Sorry I don't have more to show, but there are others here with far better stuff anyway, so hopefully they'll answer your call.

 

[jim kozmik]

a couple of new items for the bubbleblower gang....I have a RED ONE MX and a Aquavideo birger housing...a fellow Canadian has a lovely used GATES DEEP RED housing for sale..it is out fitted with doubleport extendar rings for the ang optimo15-40mm lense...which I will never use and probably not be able to sale..I was thinking....simple nikon settup with optitek promount and tokina 10-17mm main lense...question is it worth it...I fiqure the gates extension ring..optitek promount..tokina 10-17mm nikon mount...it comes with a glass port good to150ft..we dive alot deeper so addon a deepwater plastic dome...add it up plus used housing shipping from vancouver plus shipping from Gates..tax import tax ..for a used RED ONE MX.is it worth it.........THE CANADIAN PRICE IS $5000.00 FOR HOUSING...

QUESTION 2.. i JUST WENT TO A SONY SEMINAR....saw the f5...f55....and the z100 4k..$5600.00 camera......I was blown away by the quality shown on a 84 inch 4k sony monitor....Amphibico..
Equinox and Gates are all bringing out a spring housing for this toy new....the sony z100 4k blows the Ex1r out of the water....the rear card ports the cheap cards the workflow with vegas comes free.
What to buy...with the Epic color shifting..heavy weight of the red one housing systems.......and the production company does not seem to care on what it is delivered at....
THE bLACK MAGIC 4K UNIT and the nauticam housing out...is it worth spending for a epic x housing and all the extras..troubleling times for the future underwater camera people..I have received 6 phones from camera people who want to buy underwater gear..I do not no what to tell them..

Any thoughts from old RED ONE MX users..epic users or future camera divers