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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Probably a good place to start a Giant Manta behavior discussion. These critters at this location would actually go for the diver bubbles, if you blew as they approached, they would actually stop overhead, within inches, and do a giant wiggle as the bubbles tickled their bellies. It made for some astonishing footage, am itching to share as soon as I am cleared to do so.

We had some very respectable uw shooters on the expedition boat, they were all scratching their collective heads over this one. We dubbed the phenomenon the 'Giant Manta Jacuzzi Effect'.
 
Hi guys,

Firstly would like to say these threads are just great, putting people in touch and able to share experiences, information and opinions.... I'm a new member and learning very quickly about the RED community :)

A bit on myself, my name is Chris Sammut, I'm a diver/UW shooter & freelance camera op based on the Gold Coast, Australia. My experiences in the marine environment stretch back from early childhood and professionally within film and T.V over the past 7 years shooting for Discovery, BBC, Nat Geo and other UW projects when they're on here in Australia. I look at myself as a rookie compared to the likes of you guys which keeps me driven to broaden knowledge, reach personal goals and most importantly bring to the screen my vision. As we all know, the road to success can be a very long and daunting trip but we all need to find inspiration from somewhere so THANK YOU!

I shoot most of my stuff on the F-900r with custom housing and workhorses the Ex1 w/Gates and 5DMKII in Aqautica. Over the past month I've been working on Discoverys Shark Week where i've had the pleasure of shooting on the Epic configured in Gates Epic Housing, I'm Sold! So heres the thing, i'm about to jump in to this head first and set myself up with an Epic but was hoping if anyone could shed a little light on the Epic Nauticam configuration? I've heard it takes half the time to set up, lens change etc and is also half the price but restricted to Canon glass which I can live with. I've never seen or spoken with anyone who has personally shot with this configuration so I know absolutely nothing on quality or practicality only what I've seen on the web which of course Nauticam sell very well.

Hope to hear from you fellas, Cheers!

Chris Sammut

www.chrissammutfilms.com
 
I think I can help. I'll reach out and see what can be done.

Rudi Herbert said:
So, what are we to do? RED has been working, and is still working, to find the issue and fix it. Pawel claims to have figured the problem out but as I have told him, he will need to provide comparisons of his solution at work in plenty of situations and on a side-by-side set up, MX with and without his filter. Until then, we can take his word, and that of several talented people like Jon Shaw who have actually used Pawel's solution, but irrespective of its validity, it is of no use to our community if his solution remains proprietary to himself. We all know the issues between Pawel and RED, and all I can say on that front is that those issues have, as of yet, not been resolved and may likely never be. We need to be respectful of the reasons for anyone to refuse working with somebody else, that is a sacred prerogative and I mean that. But the fact remains, RED does not have a solution, and what I can say on that aspect is that, as of 10 days ago, they were still nowhere near a solution. So, all in all, we are in the same spot we were many months ago, where not for lack of effort and work of all those involved, RED cameras still continue to perform very poorly under a variety of situations underwater...And after all this typing I wonder really what the point of this whole post was...
Click to expand...

Solving problems. The mechanical ones and the human.

Rudi Herbert said:
after all this typing I wonder really what the point of this whole post was...
Click to expand...
 
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Will,

I appreciate your desire to help. However, be aware before you reach out to whomever it is you're planning, that some of us have been engaged in private discussions with RED on this issue for many months now, with Graeme and Jarred in the loop. A couple of us have also been regularly talking to Pawel as well. So although you can, of course, talk to whomever you want, know that a dialogue with the relevant parties has been in place for a long time now. It has not been a dialogue to bridge the gap between Pawel and RED, although that is one issue we have definitely touched upon, but more about exploring every option to find a solution to this issue and to offer whatever expertise we can to RED in their quest. I offer this information to you in case it can be of help before attempting to be a mediator or conduit for conversations. Which is not to say that I disapprove of any effort made by anyone to help solve this problem, on the contrary.
 
Chris Sammut said:
So heres the thing, i'm about to jump in to this head first and set myself up with an Epic but was hoping if anyone could shed a little light on the Epic Nauticam configuration? I've heard it takes half the time to set up, lens change etc and is also half the price but restricted to Canon glass which I can live with. I've never seen or spoken with anyone who has personally shot with this configuration so I know absolutely nothing on quality or practicality only what I've seen on the web which of course Nauticam sell very well.
Click to expand...

I distribute Nauticam in the Americas, and was involved in the development of this housing. Just, making sure my commercial affiliations are known... Simon Buxton who posted couple of pages back has as many dives with the system as anyone, and I'm sure you could get a pretty good look at his system and thoughts if you went and spent a week diving at his resort in Lembeh. Peter Mooney at Scubapix in Cairns distributes both Gates and Nauticam, and would also be a good resource for you.

This housing came later than most competitors, so we were able to carefully evaluate the position in the market, and find a unique niche. There was a clear need for a "step up" system for the Natural History shooter upgrading from DSLR systems. This user can share a common port system between multiple camera housings (5D Mark III, 1DC/x, Blackmagic Cinema, Red) which reduces the travel load. By choosing not to support PL lenses, the overall housing size is smaller, and the system setup is easier, as is demonstrated in the setup video (http://vimeo.com/60843712). Another difference from competing products is the choice not to rely upon red mote, and instead use the DSMC Side Handle for camera control and custom function assignments. It is always connected, and allows those assigned functions to be placed underneath the right handle for easy access. Ease of setup and tear down was a primary design goal, and is one that I think was well met.

I'm happy to answer specific questions, but there is no replacement for getting your hands on one...
 
I will say this again, the Nauticam housing is one VERY compelling design, and I am surprised to say the least, at the lukewarm reception it has gotten.

while I myself have been entrenched for years in the Gates camp, and probably will always own some of their products, as are many other people invested in other products that have the advantage of having become de-facto options. But Nauticam is one of those newcomers that, in the photography field, took everyone by storm with new thinking and approaches, as well as modern fabrication methods that were way ahead of everyone else's. And their first foray into the high end video field is far from a fluke, the Rossa is an excellent housing and I had Ryan give me a brief tour of it, and I was VERY impressed. And trust me, it takes a lot to impress me. There are things still where I wish they had gone a different route, like, why not make the housing really small and allow for a single V battery option as opposed to the quad redvolt nonsense set up? But in general, it is an extremely well built housing with lots to like and very little to dislike. Size wise, it is smaller/lighter than both Gates and Amphibico, it offers the choice of many ports, and with a small footprint to boot, and the controls through the side handle is pure genius. I am waiting to decide whether to buy a couple of Epic housings, provided our magenta issues can be solved, and at least one of them would be a Rossa.
 
with all this hearing about un-fixable magenta problems, i have yet to receive an r3d or even a jpg showing it... kinda tired of the jabber ab it without, y'know... seeing what we're discussing
 
Yeah, I would also like to see some images. I am hoping to use Dragon as my main underwater camera, but rumors persist of this magenta issue continuing, even with Dragon.

Question: Where is the closest diving location to Dubai where I could test and try to reproduce this magenta issue? Seychelles? Zanzibar? I know that someone from our team had this problem with footage shot in Fiji on MX sensor.
 
DEEP EPIC

DEEP EPIC

Hi Chris,

The Gold Coast is one of my favorite parts of Australia. Byron Bay and Port Douglas too. Welcome to the forum.

Having handled DEEP EPIC and EX1 housings you already know about Gates products and mantra: Reliability + support = your success. But there are some things about DEEP EPIC you may not know (and for the benefit of other forum members):

-- Over 70 lenses supported (and growing).

-- DEEP EPIC is a full package kit. It includes the RED PRO External Monitor housing (viewable from any position you want), Seal Check, spare kits, travel case, REDMOTE Controller (full camera control), and trim weights (perfect balance / trim in any configuration). Choose a Port / Port Extender al carte for your lens of choice.

-- A plethora of accessories for DEEP EPIC are listed below. Whatever your application, we have you covered.

-- Gates SP80 glass dome port is manufactured to very tight specifications for optical purity and anti-reflective coatings. “No compromises” to your image quality.

-- DEEP EPIC is produced in my factory here in San Diego. We design, manufacture, assemble, test, use, and service all Gates housing products.

-- User friendly, uncomplicated mechanical controls. This is a subtle and often overlooked aspect of housing design. Simplicity = a reliable, field serviceable product.

-- The Epic Dragon camera was tested last week in DEEP EPIC. 100% compatible.


There are hundreds of DEEP RED and DEEP EPIC professionals creating underwater natural history, cinema, broadcast TV, commercial and other unconventional productions. The system is well known and understood.

Feel free to contact me directly or Peter Mooney in Cairns with any questions.


DEEP EPIC Accessories

-- Port Extenders to support over 70 lenses.
-- Light Bar. Mount all sorts of arms – ULCS, TLC, whatever.
-- Shade Extensions for the Red Pro External Monitor.
-- HD-SDI Surface Feed. Need topside DP viewing? Check.
-- Comm Port. Diver communications captured on-camera.
-- Submersible Microphone
-- Hydrophone. To capture whale song and dolphin chatter.
-- Water Alarm.
-- Tripod Legs. Integrated with the housing, collapsing down close when not in use.
-- Tripod Adapter. For your own tripod.
-- Knob Extensions. Finer control of focus and iris.
-- Remote Lens Control. Need surface control of Focus or full FIZ? DEEP EPIC has an integrated solution. (Including the new RED 3-Axis Lens Control System)
-- Remote power on/off. To turn on your Epic remotely.
-- Lighting. Stay tuned..more on this in 2014.
-- Shell extensions. Need something unusual inside? We have the space for it.
-- Customizations. Special modifications are routine. You really can have it ‘just the way you like’.
 
:blink:

anyways... thanks to les i've finally figured out about this magenta-haint and i've certainly seen a lot of it, but i guess i have a different perspective of how bad it is. based on the way you guys are working i understand you need something perfect when you pull it out of the water and obviously that means better colors in the end. i think red has an opportunity here to become underwater experts... it's a small industry but it makes a big and lasting impact through images.
 
Well fellas, it looks as though it's true. Peter Jackson decided to use GoPro footage for the underwater bits in The Hobbit instead of a fine housing from one of you folks. Apparently, I haven't seen it yet, it's quite easy to spot.

How many here would have shot that spot for a credit? Kinda sad to see GoPro picked over Epic UW. Also shows the lack of marketing, sponsorship and demos we currently have in the UW Housing game. How many places in LA offer a free demo of the UW housings before purchasing? If it's good, we'll use it but we have to test it to see if it will fit our needs. I've wanted to do a comprehensive test of all the options for quite sometime as I'm looking to find a nice fit for filming this summer. I won't waste anymore time with my GoPro. The videos that are out I appreciate, not quite hands on but helpful to narrow down the options.

Rudi, did you ever have a chance to put together the reviews you said you would nearly nine months ago in regards to Epic housing options?
 
Paul,

If the UW footage you've seen has been shot in the American Pacific, such as the piece you helped Johnny grade, then you've seen the very best of it actually. Tropical waters yield far worse results, with blue water/low paticulate places like Grand Cayman and Hawaii looking downright AWFUL to areas like the Bahamas or the Florida Keys being acceptable. As has been discussed here, the combination of water density, salinity, amount and type of particulate matter as well as light incidence all affect the final image greatly. How so? I think those factors determine the absorption characteristics of the water and make it act as a filter of sorts that either reflects or retains certain wavelengths that very negatively affect the MX sensor. Which is to say that the problem is always there to a degree, from quite fixable to downright unacceptable. The best way to know whether a particular location is "good or bad" is to simply dive there. But make no mistake, no channel mixing/reconstruction or any other trick can fix the really bad stuff.

Will,

Well, yes, I have gotten my hands on different housings and formulated an opinion about them, but no, I really didn't get the chance to run comprehensive tests that I could film and post for others to see. In fact, I've been dying to test the Gates F55 housing since that camera might be in my future and even for my own benefit I have not been able to find the time. Sorry, I've been busy and would not recommend waiting for me to get around to it so feel welcome to run whatever tests you need.

Tom H.

I feel you, and agree at how infuriating it is when neophytes just figure they'll jump in and nip this UW shooting thing right in the bud, but in the end, results speak for themselves. Which is not to say this is the case with Tom Lowe, I am sure (or rather hopeful) that he has not lost his footing just cause the last couple of years have been a whirlwind ride of success for him. Just 3-4 years ago, if memory serves right, Tom was just shooting time lapses on his Canon DSLR and longing for the opportunity to shoot/own a RED, any RED, so now that his talents have finally been recognized, and justly rewarded with the opportunity to shoot with whatever gear he wants, I would still bet he remains grounded and humble. That's my take on him, and as with any opinion (no allegories of sphincters coming don't worry) I could be right or wrong. My advice for Tom is, the same way he did during endless nights in the freezing desert, to master UW skills that rival his keen eye on land, to go and shoot, shoot, shoot, no matter where, just shoot.
 
Absolutely correct Rudi, I apologize to Tom for suggesting anything of the sort. Due technical issues with some of my DIT equipment, I have had a major shoot compromised, am now pedaling as furiously as I can to resolve them and save the project. I may have read more into Tom's post than was there, through angst-colored glasses as it were. Suitably chastened, I return to my chambers to pull out what little hair I have remaining.
 
thanks for clearing that up, rudi - for what it's worth i believe you - but apparently i'm still in the same spot where i haven't really seen the issue. i'm content to wait for dragon images...

one question though - is this just a saltwater thing, or does this appear in rivers, lakes, streams, pools?
 
Will Keir said:
How many here would have shot that spot for a credit?
Click to expand...

With respect.....as i know what you mean..but my hopfeful reply to that question is i sure hope NOBODY would do that not should they for a credit. It is always far more work than thought...to come to a set with two cameras, backup cables, monitors and tools as well as underwater comms and a pile of cases in case there is a failure of any sorts and people that know what they are doing both topside as support for underwater shooting....I've luckily been there on a few occasions and you do NOT want to be the cause of stopping a production due to a mechanical, software or human failure....Therefore those in that position are typically paid very well to show up and shoot that small bit and they should be paid well......we should not forget the work and effort that goes into working underwater. You not only need to master shooting skills, but diving skills and then far and above or actually as equally important, one needs failure and failure response techniques to know how to act when these failures or challenges occur underwater.

.....But i doubt PJ would ever accept someone working for a credit on a big shoot since paying someone also should guarantee you get the job done and if not.........!!!!! there's hell to pay if you are under funded and dont have backups of your backups and the crew to back you up. This is a well learned step by step process and once one gets to shooting at that level they are often justly well rewarded since they know what they are doing.

as for go pro....yeah, it sucks they went that route...but go pro has also made huge strides. I was on a recent shoot where there were go pros and they all had BETA codecs ---they were NOT recording to h264. I am not sure what they were reccoring to, but i'd bet it was Cineform. AND it was large format....not sure again, but i was told 4k by a producer. So they certainly have something cooking.
 
While we're on the subject Johnny, I'd like to solicit your opinion on something, anyone else out there please chime in.

I was recently contacted by executives at CBS 60 Minutes in New York, they were putting together a show on free diving, specifically with regard to Nick Mevoli, the free diver who perished last month in the Bahamas attempting to set a new world depth record using monofin.

I have footage of Nick from the Caribbean Cup last May, they were very interested to incorporate that into the piece. I FTP'd them watermarked footage, after seeing the Epic quality of the shots, were very enthusiastic about using it. The producer, who shall here go un-named, insisted on getting non-watermarked footage as a 'placeholder' for evaluation, I asked them about rates. I was actually willing to drop the the rates to minimum out of respect for Nick's death, in the end, they wanted the footage for free, in exchange for credits.

I said no, a production house of that magnitude shouldn't be using Tosh O. You Tube Freebies to get the job done, in my very humble opinion.

Was I wrong?
 
Good for you Tom....
NO...they should NOT get footage from you or any other pro for free. They are a profit making entity and not expect you to be a non for profit one.



Tom Hamilton said:
While we're on the subject Johnny, I'd like to solicit your opinion on something, anyone else out there please chime in.

I was recently contacted by executives at CBS 60 Minutes in New York, they were putting together a show on free diving, specifically with regard to Nick Mevoli, the free diver who perished last month in the Bahamas attempting to set a new world depth record using monofin.

I have footage of Nick from the Caribbean Cup last May, they were very interested to incorporate that into the piece. I FTP'd them watermarked footage, after seeing the Epic quality of the shots, were very enthusiastic about using it. The producer, who shall here go un-named, insisted on getting non-watermarked footage as a 'placeholder' for evaluation, I asked them about rates. I was actually willing to drop the the rates to minimum out of respect for Nick's death, in the end, they wanted the footage for free, in exchange for credits.

I said no, a production house of that magnitude shouldn't be using Tosh O. You Tube Freebies to get the job done, in my very humble opinion.

Was I wrong?
Click to expand...
 
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