The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[Tom Hamilton]

Pleasure to have you back Mark, those are some very rounded shots...

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Hey Tom, Likewise mate. Been up to my arse in tiger shark fins and Indonesian slaughter pits...not too great to see.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Taken from the Socorro Islands two weeks ago, according the marine biologists aboard, about 40 to 45 feet in length, one of the largest of its kind, a highly pregnant female about to give birth, she chooses not to at that moment, due large numbers of Galapagos and Silky sharks, no one has ever filmed a whale shark giving birth, 300 pups or more, dispersed at varying places in the ocean, the survival strategy is unique.

[IM

G] A006_C002_12057L by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Rudi Herbert]

That is a sandy bottom...

Leaving in a few hours for my last trip of the year, so this will be my last post for real. Thoughts so far:

Redraw is raw, I don't expect there to be any changes between WB before and after, but will be happy to be proven wrong if Jeff sends me those files. I just can't take him, or anyone, on their word on an issue that contradicts everything we've known from the very get go with RED.

We can debate the validity of WB underwater and never agree on one method, however, the important thing is that several people have used their methods of WB with other cameras for years and got excellent results and now those same methods do not extrapolate to RED. In fact, in those situations where the image goes to hell, it does not much matter how or when the WB is done, the image is just gone. And to be sure, Palau, Grand Cayman and Hawaii are some of the best locations in the world, chosen for photo and film shoots for decades, but some of the worst images we've seen of late come from those places...

UV pollution is definitely a leading cause of magenta tints on images, but how other CMOS cameras seem completely immune to it on the same places that RED fails is puzzling, as well as the fact that under Graeme's supervision several formulations and strengths of UV filters were tested and never really showed any improvement, to the point where Graeme stopped the UV testing. It seems to me that UV is DEFINITELY a contributing factor but NOT the main factor in RED's case.

Red filters greatly improve the images but do not really eliminate the problem. This of course must be due to the fact that they help balance the channels, as they do with every other camera including film. Interestingly, a red filter acts as a sort of ND, which as per the above UV issue, should actually make things worse, yet another fact that points away from UV.

I know of other cameras that suffer from this issue, namely the Sony FS 100, although I myself have never seen any of those images. It would be great to take a look at files like that if anybody has access to them. In my case, though I've heard about it, I've only seen this phenomena in RED, and one last time, it is more severe on the Epic than on the R1 MX, and more severe on the R1 MX than on the R1 M...

Happy New Year everyone and safe dives!

 

[Johnny Friday]

Cheers Darek, I told the wife I was trying a new WB technique, I think the bruising will disappear in about a fortnight...

Mark, are you using Derek's technique? WB on a white sandy bottom?

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Mark, are you using Derek's technique? WB on a white sandy bottom?

Yeah, I tried but got a slap from the missus, managed the screen grab before she formatted my drive and banished Mr. Wobbly to the Mankini Mansion.

 

[Darek Sepiolo]

Cheers Darek, I told the wife I was trying a new WB technique, I think the bruising will disappear in about a fortnight...

That's why I like my job... lot's of sandy bottoms

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Mark, I hope you're out of the doghouse by now. You can tell the missus, I think that young lady is making a perfect ass of herself.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Yeah, she's a bit behind...

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Bummer mate.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I second Rudi and encourage you to manipulate my R3D file. It was shot on Palau, c 10 meters deep, sunny day, clear water. I white balanced the camera on sandy bottom probably being half a meter from the sand. This was the same procedure I used to do for 3 yrs shooting for Discovery with my old EX1 and having no problems with colors.

http://dive-away.pl/dopobrania/A003_C013_05150R.0000387F.R3D

You underexpose by 4-5 stops and then you argue that the camera you use has issues.

I mean your red channel is really hitting the bottom and your blue and green is not doing much better. So what you have is pretty much an underexposed duetone image. if you would have filtered with a red/orange filter and by doing so lose two steps and then open up like 6 steps your image would look superb.

I Think before uploading images and arguing that the camera is not doing what it should I think it's first vice to ask one self if there is any other parameters that maybe is not where they should be. In this case exposure is clipping the red channel heavily at the bottom, so when you try to white balance the image there is simply no info, and the result is bad colours, kind of trying to make a color print from a duetone image. To get good results you simply need to use all the photo sites in the camera, that goes for all cameras red included.

If you see my screen dumps bellow you can clearly tell that the red is out of line at 800 iso, and when adjusted to balance you do not have a full spectrum to balance from so your image get ill colours all over and especially in the dark regions.

Maybe you had better knowledge how to expose on your EX1, even though I think the epic is the easiest of them all. Make sure you see no goal post and you are usually fine, bring up skin tones to 70% of the histogram if possible, and try as far as you can never to clip, not at bottom and not at the highlight end. Thats probably covered with in the first 10 minutes of reduction..

 

[Rafa Herrero]

We live in a world much more amazing than we think it is. A planet dyed in blue that we never come to understand.
Under the thin blue line there is a three-dimensional space with unexplored seascapes of primal life, of light effects cradled by the water, of pure magic. A place where we question our commitment with the oceans.

Best wishes for 2014!!

 

[Tom Lowe]

I was very pleasantly surprised by how amazingly the Dragon performed underwater. The footage is super sharp, detailed and vivid. Dragon smokes the MX, C500 and F55. Underwater, the dynamic range really pays off, as well.

Shot on Gates Deep Epic with Canon 8-15 through glass dome.

4K video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9e5i4u2n4eoshie/Dragon Long 4Kv2.mp4

R3D: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vm9lhgc2p5dm3py/A003_C016_1229L4.0002384F.R3D

6K JPEG: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vrj3upe81hx1r6s/Dragon-UW-6K-Frame.jpg

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Tom,

Not trying to be the dissonant voice, but a pool dive does not a camera test make. I'm sure Dragon is super sharp and detailed given its 6K heritage, but how does it perform in terms of color rendition and saturation is the question we're all interested in. For what I see in your footage, skin tones look pale greenish, as they usually do underwater and in fact not any better than any other camera. Johnny Friday swears there are significant improvements after testing in real underwater conditions and that's worth something but any camera worth its salt nowadays should look like that in a shallow pool.

But I'm happy you're getting your feet wet underwater, to welcome another talented shooter into our fray is always a momentous occasion.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I'm super busy these days prepping for New Years shoot, so this is all I have time for. Sorry if the test shots and R3D are not useful to you.. maybe they will be useful to some. I am headed to Maldives with Dragon + F55 on Jan 8th, so I can shoot an apples-to-apples comparison in clear, tropical sea water.

Having said all of that, I have shot with most of the major cameras underwater -- MX, C550, F55 -- and the Dragon is a big, big step up, even if you want to talk about how things look only in pools. It's the resolution and DR that stand out, for sure.

any camera worth its salt nowadays should look like that in a shallow pool.

Believe me, no other camera will look like Dragon when played back on a 4K monitor. It's much more resolution, for starters.

 

[Joe Shemesh]

Some beautiful shots there Rafa, thanks for sharing!!!

best
joe

We live in a world much more amazing than we think it is. A planet dyed in blue that we never come to understand.
Under the thin blue line there is a three-dimensional space with unexplored seascapes of primal life, of light effects cradled by the water, of pure magic. A place where we question our commitment with the oceans.

Best wishes for 2014!!

 

[Tom Lowe]

Here is another R3D for you kids, and a 6K JPEG, for those who are interested.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2sh40rfly9wj04r/A004_C002_1230DC.0000133F.R3D

https://www.dropbox.com/s/petpng41ojwt9rj/Nikonos-6K.jpg

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

DEEP DRAGON

DEEP DRAGON

I'm pleased to announce DEEP DRAGON. As noted in posts by Johnny Friday and Tom Lowe, DEEP DRAGON is fully compatible with EPIC DRAGON camera.

Full Press Release is below.

http://www.gateshousings.com/housings/deep-dragon/



Gates Underwater Products announces DEEP DRAGON.

With added features and accessories, DEEP DRAGON brings 6K digital cinema to the underwater realm.

Poway, CA – 16 December 2013 – Gates Underwater Products – home of the most reliable, durable and dependable underwater housings – today announces DEEP DRAGON, the latest addition to the Gates family of underwater digital cinema systems.

Designed for the new Red Digital Cinema EPIC DRAGON camera, DEEP DRAGON ushers in exceptional handling of challenging underwater lighting conditions with 6K lines of resolution, more than16 stops of dynamic range, and native 2000 ISO.

Founded on the sibling DEEP EPIC package, DEEP DRAGON is complete with:
· RED PRO External Monitor housing -- viewable from any position;
· Seal Check – to verify housing integrity *before* entering the water:
· REDMOTE Controller – for full camera control underwater;
· Trim Weights – for perfect balance and control in any configuration

The DEEP DRAGON kit also includes a new set of accessories for the underwater professional:
· Tripod Legs – Integrated with the housing and collapse tight when not in use;
· Shade Extension – a deeper viewing shade for the RED PRO External Monitor housing;
· Light Bar – to mount ULSC, TLC, Locline and other light arms;
· Purasol Port Cleaner

DEEP DRAGON’s unique design supports over 70 PL mount cinema and DSLR lenses. Paired with Gates Precision Ports means no compromises to image quality – a critical factor for 6K resolution sensors. User friendly, uncomplicated mechanical controls are virtually failure-free and field serviceable. And since one size does not fit all, a extensive suite of accessories is available to support natural history, broadcast TV, commercial and many productions:

· Port Extenders to support over 70 lenses.
· HD-SDI Surface Feed. Need topside DP viewing? Check.
· Comm Port. Diver communications captured on-camera.
· Submersible Microphone
· Hydrophone. To capture whale song and dolphin chatter.
· Water Alarm.
· Tripod Adapter. For your own tripod.
· Knob Extensions. Finer control of focus and iris.
· Remote Lens Control. Need surface control of Focus or full FIZ? DEEP EPIC has an integrated solution. (Including the new RED 3-Axis Lens Control System)
· Remote power on/off. To turn on your Epic remotely.
· Lighting. New Gates underwater lights available in 2014.
· Shell extensions. Need something unusual inside? We have the space for it.
· Customizations. Special modifications are routine. You really can have it ‘just the way you like’.


The design, manufacture, assembly, test, use, and service of DEEP DRAGON are all performed at Gates facility in San Diego California. It is a Gates through and through, a workhorse of function, reliability and success. Don’t take a chance...Take a Gates!

· DEEP DRAGON Housing Price: $18,280
· Availability: Immediately


About Gates: Since 1969, Gates Underwater Products has produced is the world’s most reliable underwater housings. Using ‘bulletproof” machined aluminum and stainless steel hardware, 100% mechanical controls, time-proven design methods, and state-of-the-art manufacturing, Gates housings are built for the most demanding marine applications. Commercial divers, imaging professionals, marine researchers, salvage operators and military personnel all turn to Gates for the same reason: our "bulletproof" housings produce results 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. That's why they say:
Don’t take a Chance….Take a Gates!

 

[Nick Morrison]

Tom,

Not trying to be the dissonant voice, but a pool dive does not a camera test make. I'm sure Dragon is super sharp and detailed given its 6K heritage, but how does it perform in terms of color rendition and saturation is the question we're all interested in. For what I see in your footage, skin tones look pale greenish, as they usually do underwater and in fact not any better than any other camera. Johnny Friday swears there are significant improvements after testing in real underwater conditions and that's worth something but any camera worth its salt nowadays should look like that in a shallow pool.

But I'm happy you're getting your feet wet underwater, to welcome another talented shooter into our fray is always a momentous occasion.

I think it's hard to judge skintones from a graded quicktime. I think it's best to explore the raw R3D and judge for yourself, if you haven't already.

 

[Mark van Coller]

Please post some comparison shots if possible when you get back from the Maldives Tom.
That would really be useful for a lot of us.