The First Komodo Out in the Wild

[Ash Worth]

Canon C300 MK3 is twice as expensive? I don't think so, that's a little disingenuous. For 11K you get camera body, electronic grip, LCD viewfinder, battery plus charger, handle etc... basically add a card and lens and you are ready to shoot.

Komodo is 6K and it comes with what? And let's not pretend you could reasonably shoot with that tiny screen for any serious project.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Sounds like Komodo 4K working camera is 6 months away. No decent video footage so far makes me wonder. Buying time while competition is around the corner. All we see is Colour designs, like little kids. Fancy names for Camera, whats next. ENGRAVING the name on camera for sure.

Given past experience, RED would not be shipping out cameras if Komodo wasn't near full release. I'm assuming they are relatively close to going on sale. I assume these early adopters are beta testing (so they don't have AF and LQ yet). But presumably these things will be ironed out before final release.

Also if you look carefully, Komodo appears to be - perhaps - a preview of RED sensors to come.

I have a feeling DSMC3 is going to have a lot of KOMODO in it, just in a much ahem *larger* way.

If you do some basic match and extrapolate KOMODO pixel design onto larger sensors you will see what I mean:
8K KOMODO is exactly 36mm Vista Vision for example. Coincidence?

But given that 8K is already a standard, I don't see why RED will stop there: 10K and 12K designs don't seem far fetched.

The additional DR from these much larger pixel arrays I'm sure is tantalizing...

This is a long way of saying: I wouldn't underestimate Komodo. I have a feeling in a ahem *small* way it's an important moment for RED.

Also don't judge any footage until you see an R3D.

 

[M Harvey]

Sounds like Komodo 4K working camera is 6 months away. No decent video footage so far makes me wonder. Buying time while competition is around the corner. All we see is Colour designs, like little kids. Fancy names for Camera, whats next. ENGRAVING the name on camera for sure.

I always like your posts, Jiri, because you tear down the hype-- it's good to have someone letting the hot air out of the room! But the first Komodos JUST got out into the world--a world where it's very difficult for most of us to produce any quality work right now. Hold out a little hope-- Komodo might turn out to be pretty good, and it might turn out to be available soon!
And if the results don't please you, well-- sounds like there's at least one other new camera that's perfect for you. It's a good time to be shopping for a camera.

 

[Han Vogen]

But the first Komodos JUST got out into the world--a world where it's very difficult for most of us to produce any quality work right now. Hold out a little hope-- Komodo might turn out to be pretty good, and it might turn out to be available soon!
And if the results don't please you, well-- sounds like there's at least one other new camera that's perfect for you. It's a good time to be shopping for a camera.

Maybe I’m not sophisticated enough to understand the reasoning behind shooting a wall with a flashlight bouncing around. It seems to me setting the camera on a tripod facing a subject backlit by a bright window might be more telling than these bazaar test. No crew needed, no budget... just camera, tripod, chair and window. But I could be totally wrong:aureola:

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

And personal take on Dual ISO in particular. I do think that is a technology of the now and works great on Gemini for instance. Future sensors, well, I have thoughts. Dual Gain, sure. That still works. But there's so much sci-fi tech coming that those things don't allude to.

Dual ISO is necessary if your photosite design is not up to scratch. You get more DR from Dragon than from ALEV-III, albeit with some compromises. Monstro is better again. Of course Canon needs dual gain, because their sensors aren't as good as Sony or Red or Arri or Panasonic. Of course you'd want both - imagine Monstro with dual gain.

Gemini has dual gain for the purpose of relatively clean low light performance. Same deal with the Panasonic S1.

I hate to make poor analogies, but imagine an internal combustion engine. Forced induction, or natural induction? Where do you spend your money? On the heads - including multi-valve, OHC and VVT? Or a supercharger? Interesting enough, having VVT and mulit-valve hemi heads won't really help the supercharger much AFAIK (please correct me if I'm wrong). But maybe I'm way off base altogether.

 

[David Rasberry]

Canon C300 MK3 is twice as expensive? I don't think so, that's a little disingenuous. For 11K you get camera body, electronic grip, LCD viewfinder, battery plus charger, handle etc... basically add a card and lens and you are ready to shoot.

Komodo is 6K and it comes with what? And let's not pretend you could reasonably shoot with that tiny screen for any serious project.

First pass at a basic Komodo kit with some items available now. I'm sure there will be a lot more options before long. Media, support, and lenses not included. Mix Pre 3 is not strictly essential, but useful for high quality double system sound.

ITEM QUAN PRICE EXTENDED
Komodo body kit 1 $6,000.00 $6,000.00
GDU monitor mount 1 $79.00 $79.00
GDU Cowboy handle 1 $490.00 $490.00
Canon BP955 battery 2 $149.00 $298.00
Watson dual battery charger 1 $79.95 $79.95
Small HD Focus OLED 5" monitor 1 $299.00 $299.00
Canon RF to EF adapter w/ ND filter 1 $399.00 $399.00
Sound Devices Mix Pre 3 w/ field bag 1 $795.00 $795.00
Miscellaneous cables, lot 1 $150.00 $150.00

Total $8,589.95

 

[Alain M]

I think too much speculation and fast tracking negativity ahead of time with lack of patience... I think we need to wait and see in details what is KOMODO for real before judging specs...

I think it is extremely competitive Cam already on the price range and by what Phil has already shared with us so far...

If this Cam wasn't great, Phil would've said it already... Comparison with Canon is being rushed and I believe we should wait first for Full Release Firmware KOMODO "Black Batch" before final comparison is made.


Cheers!!!

 

[Han Vogen]

Of course Canon needs dual gain, because their sensors aren't as good as Sony or Red or Arri or Panasonic.

Gemini has dual gain for the purpose of relatively clean low light performance. Same deal with the Panasonic S1.

Gemini doesn’t have dual gain output... neither does the Panasonic. The only other camera that comes to mind that is using a DGO type sensor technology is the Arri Alexa. Do not confuse “Dual Gain Output” (DGO) with “Dual ISO”... or in Red speak “Dual Sensitivity”. DGO sensors do not have two base ISO that the user can switch between for different lighting situations. Rather, DGO equipped cameras simultaneously record at two different ISO setting at the pixel level; selecting the most appropriate setting for each pixel. I don’t think Sony has anything like this. Perhaps once Sony had the lead... those times are gone!

 

[Todd G. Peterson]

Thanks Phil for the steady stream of experiences and insights. I'm quite curious to know how the new sensor handles highlights. I know that a lot of it is down to the color science, but I rarely shoot in very dark scenes, so highlight rolloff is quite important. Any examples of that would be great.

 

[Joey Schweitzer]

Philip Grossman (flash light guy) appears to have a few more shots on Vimeo with the Komodo: https://vimeo.com/426016642

Still fairly hard to tell things like dynamic range and highlight rolloff with this footage since these are evening and night time shots, but low light looks clean for 800 ISO.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Dual ISO is necessary if your photosite design is not up to scratch. You get more DR from Dragon than from ALEV-III, albeit with some compromises. Monstro is better again. Of course Canon needs dual gain, because their sensors aren't as good as Sony or Red or Arri or Panasonic. Of course you'd want both - imagine Monstro with dual gain.

Gemini has dual gain for the purpose of relatively clean low light performance. Same deal with the Panasonic S1.

I hate to make poor analogies, but imagine an internal combustion engine. Forced induction, or natural induction? Where do you spend your money? On the heads - including multi-valve, OHC and VVT? Or a supercharger? Interesting enough, having VVT and mulit-valve hemi heads won't really help the supercharger much AFAIK (please correct me if I'm wrong). But maybe I'm way off base altogether.

Actually, the Alexa line of cameras has a dual gain system (not dual ISO). That's how they managed to keep their 14 stops of DR at every ISO setting (give or take) and to get "DAT DR" that a lot of people are crazy about.
I don't know about Sony or Panasonic.

 

[Todd G. Peterson]

Philip Grossman (flash light guy) appears to have a few more shots on Vimeo with the Komodo: https://vimeo.com/426016642

Still fairly hard to tell things like dynamic range and highlight rolloff with this footage since these are evening and night time shots, but low light looks clean for 800 ISO.

Thanks for the link. Some great shots of the biz jet. Given how other Red sensors handle shadows, I'm not too surprised by the clean image at 800. In fact, I kind of expect it. When I shoot the light is almost always controlled and rarely dark enough that it would be a problem with an Alexa, much less a Red. Hopefully we'll get some good shots soon that demonstrate how well this sensor and color science can handle highlight roll off, recovery, detail, etc.

 

[Phil Holland]

Whelp. Was on the horn today for the better part of 11 hours, so that was fun. Still managed to get a half dozen tests done.

Thanks Phil for the steady stream of experiences and insights. I'm quite curious to know how the new sensor handles highlights. I know that a lot of it is down to the color science, but I rarely shoot in very dark scenes, so highlight rolloff is quite important. Any examples of that would be great.

Thank you Todd and for you, here you go.




I'll save you the diary post I made to Instagram today and just write quick thoughts.

As I mentioned the Color Science Filter is strong, somewhat similar in feel to the Skin Tone - Highlight OLPF of our DSMC2 bodies. Though it's more advanced and tuned to Komodo uniquely working with the sensor tech to get us a nice soft Highlight Roll-Off. There's stuff I look for up here, but mainly I'm looking for softness and smoothness. And that's pretty on point with what I see. And this is a contrasty lens, Sigma Cine. Should be fun with certain vintage glass too. Might be even more fun with diffusion, though I rarely use it.

Tomorrow will be a bit more productive for "all of you". Trying to arrange some bigger stuff at the moment now that curfew has been lifted city-wide.

*edit, it's in my IG post, but this is IPP2 Low Contrast / Soft Highlight Roll-Off.

 

[Daniel Porto]

edit setup

edit setup

Hey Phil when you get a chance I would like to hear what computer set-up you have to edit komodo footage. ill be using resolve but just want to get the most cost effective but workable laptop setup

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/06/05/canons-dual-gain-output-sensor-explained/

 

[Dmitry Shijan]

Dual Gain is not ARRI only. Some Blackmagic Design cameras (BMCC, BMPCC, BMMCC and Ursas 4.6K) are based on Fairchild Imaging dual gain sensors as well.
Same time newer Blackmagic Design cameras with Sony sensor use dual ISO hard switch.

 

[Jiri Vrozina]

Dual Gain is not ARRI only. Some Blackmagic Design cameras (BMCC, BMPCC, BMMCC and Ursas 4.6K) are based on Fairchild Imaging dual gain sensors as well.
Same time newer Blackmagic Design cameras with Sony sensor use dual ISO hard switch.

dual gain OUTPUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Philip Grossman (flash light guy) appears to have a few more shots on Vimeo with the Komodo: https://vimeo.com/426016642

Still fairly hard to tell things like dynamic range and highlight rolloff with this footage since these are evening and night time shots, but low light looks clean for 800 ISO.

Strange motion blur on that Night shot flying plane. Hope the shutter was off.

 

[Todd G. Peterson]

Whelp. Was on the horn today for the better part of 11 hours, so that was fun. Still managed to get a half dozen tests done.

Thank you Todd and for you, here you go.

I'll save you the diary post I made to Instagram today and just write quick thoughts.

As I mentioned the Color Science Filter is strong, somewhat similar in feel to the Skin Tone - Highlight OLPF of our DSMC2 bodies. Though it's more advanced and tuned to Komodo uniquely working with the sensor tech to get us a nice soft Highlight Roll-Off. There's stuff I look for up here, but mainly I'm looking for softness and smoothness. And that's pretty on point with what I see. And this is a contrasty lens, Sigma Cine. Should be fun with certain vintage glass too. Might be even more fun with diffusion, though I rarely use it.

Tomorrow will be a bit more productive for "all of you". Trying to arrange some bigger stuff at the moment now that curfew has been lifted city-wide.

*edit, it's in my IG post, but this is IPP2 Low Contrast / Soft Highlight Roll-Off.

Thanks Phil. I was quite surprised at how soft it was, then I saw your edit about using the Low Contrast / Soft HL settings. Overall it looks quite promising. I'd be quite curious to see what it's like on Medium/Medium as that's where I'll shoot most of the time. Do you happen to have a flatter lens like a Leica Summicron-C that you could use for some shots?

I really appreciate all your effort on this. I have in mind a dozen uses from drone to gimbal to car interiors that would benefit a lot from this camera. It looks quite promising.

Oh, and I hope my Alexa-compatible Sandisk Extreme Pro CF cards will be qualified for the Komodo. That was save me a lot by having one card compatible with both.

 

[Todd G. Peterson]

I'm curious about the ND situation. Does the Komodo support an electronic ND like the Zcam one?