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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tested Monstro vs. Helium

Šabović Adis;1792893 said:
Well, it could be, given the dual gain architecture (switching between hi-gain and lo-gain mode?) and the 14 bit AD converter, so that latitude is around 14 stops, and total DR (which only partially gets recorded, depending on lo or hi mode, and never fully) is around 19.





Eyes have pupils, lenses have apertures and its blades...plus NDs. What Björn says. :smile5:
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Pupils are a fixed part of the eye, so they count (sun glasses don't, although some people have never been seen without them).
 
https://vimeo.com/261227505


Just toss this in there, Monstro and a macro Raptor 180mm lens on close focus range. @ F16 and 3200 ISO. The none fringing highlights and the way the colors has accuracy when going towards white, I just find fantastic on Monstro. On helium it would crack wide open and even dragon but a bit less than helium.

This is just straight out of camera proress no grading just ipp2.
 
Mischa I think you made a misassumption about alexa ISO. ISO on the alexa is nothing, there is no ISO on an alexa. Just as there is non on red. Or simply ISO is the same thing as increasing gain on your TV or monitor. It does not change anything of the capture. So no matter if you capture at 50ISO or 3200ISO the result is the same. It does not give you any extra stops of DR. The only thing that happens is your captured image is displayed with more or less digital gain on your screens thats all. The raw capture is just determined by the actual exposure and time. ISO is a post processing thing.
 
I want to post a gif reacting to some of this, but for now I'll just pry my palm away from my face.
 
Thanks for posting the outdoor tests Chris. Very interesting stuff. Can't wait to see the interior tests at normal ISOs.

I think all of this night exterior stuff is pretty impressive. Monstro is incredible, and I think clearly shows the benefits of the larger format (though of course, they're making you pay for it!). Venice pushed two full stops from it's native 500 ISO looks impressively usable, and I'm very interested to see how much it improves when they enable the dual-native ISO. A 2500 ISO base, overexposed by 1/3 of a stop (as it would be in this scenario) could be really great (I wonder if it'll be able to keep up with Monstro at that point?).

Helium can't quite keep up with the other two. Monstro practically doesn't need any chroma noise reduction, Venice needs a touch, Helium needs more than would likely generate a pleasant result in motion. But it still holds up remarkably well given how small the photosites are by comparison to the other two.
 
Björn Benckert said:
https://vimeo.com/261227505


Just toss this in there, Monstro and a macro Raptor 180mm lens on close focus range. @ F16 and 3200 ISO. The none fringing highlights and the way the colors has accuracy when going towards white, I just find fantastic on Monstro. On helium it would crack wide open and even dragon but a bit less than helium.

This is just straight out of camera proress no grading just ipp2.
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Looks amazing.

Did you try a comparison with Helium? Surely fringing highlights is a function of the lens more than the sensor, the Raptors are APO so that doesn't surprise me. Fair point about colours to white but actually in real practical situations i've never had an issue with Helium.

On these tests we're looking at worst case scenarios and pushing Monstro which is great and needed but actually the Helium stuff is perfectly useable.

But i would love to see a situation where Helium and Monstro separate very obviously

cheers
Paul
 
Xyla chart is useful for a very general luminance DR test. Full test also needs a real a world scene with proper and controlled and measured light and cameras exposed from under to over.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Xyla chart is useful for a very general luminance DR test. Full test also needs a real a world scene with proper and controlled and measured light and cameras exposed from under to over.
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+1

A latitude test is far more useful than a DR chart can be. It tells you where the image starts to break down both in overexposure and underexposure.
 
Aris_Gavriilidis said:
Phil I think it's time for "the test to end all tests", Monstro vs Alexa LF vs Venice on the Xyla chart!!!
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Hrvoje Simic said:
Xyla chart is useful for a very general luminance DR test. Full test also needs a real a world scene with proper and controlled and measured light and cameras exposed from under to over.
Click to expand...

It's already happened. Will happen one more time before August as well "for reasons" from one of the manufacturers.
 
Mark K. said:
+1

A latitude test is far more useful than a DR chart can be. It tells you where the image starts to break down both in overexposure and underexposure.
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Yeah that'd be great, I remember the one the ACS did about two years back, comparing Epic Dragon and Weapon Dragon with Alexa XT with over/under exposing a scene with a model to see where each breaks.
 
Aris_Gavriilidis said:
Yeah that'd be great, I remember the one the ACS did about two years back, comparing Epic Dragon and Weapon Dragon with Alexa XT with over/under exposing a scene with a model to see where each breaks.
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Yep. This one remains the best I've ever seen:


Does a wonderful job of letting you understand where each camera break comparatively.
 
Mark K. said:
Yep. This one remains the best I've ever seen:


Does a wonderful job of letting you understand where each camera break comparatively.
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It kind of sucks that it will take probably 2 years for what IPP2 brings to the table, to be recognized. (As I still see that NoFilmSchool Helium vs Alexa passed around online, where Helium clips in highlights very quickly, but is fixed in IPP2).
 
Adam Montville said:
It kind of sucks that it will take probably 2 years for what IPP2 brings to the table, to be recognized. (As I still see that NoFilmSchool Helium vs Alexa passed around online, where Helium clips in highlights very quickly, but is fixed in IPP2).
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That test was unbelievably infuriating, if NoFilmSchool is as much about transparency as they claim, they should update their Alexa vs Epic-W article and re-publish it so that people can see what is really going on with the Helium sensor.
 
Aris_Gavriilidis said:
That test was unbelievably infuriating, if NoFilmSchool is as much about transparency as they claim, they should update their Alexa vs Epic-W article and re-publish it so that people can see what is really going on with the Helium sensor.
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Nah, there's nothing wrong with that test, they did a good, thorough job with it. Red have no one but themselves to blame for all of the confusion caused by the arrival of Helium. It's release should have been held back a little until IPP2 was ready to launch.

If you have to randomly stumble across an internet forum thread 12 months after a camera is released (as happened with me), in order to learn that it actually now has new colour science that completely nullifies the results you initially saw, and makes it perform far more competitive in market... well, then that camera's launch was botched.
 
Mark K. said:
Nah, there's nothing wrong with that test, they did a good, thorough job with it. Red have no one but themselves to blame for all of the confusion caused by the arrival of Helium. It's release should have been held back a little until IPP2 was ready to launch.

If you have to randomly stumble across an internet forum thread 12 months after a camera is released (as happened with me), in order to learn that it actually now has new colour science that completely nullifies the results you initially saw, and makes it perform far more competitive in market... well, then that camera's launch was botched.
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Fair point, but wouldn't you also agree that NoFilmSchool would do everyone a big favor by publishing a new article showing the updated color science and all?
 
Phil Holland said:
It's already happened. Will happen one more time before August as well "for reasons" from one of the manufacturers.
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Excellent, looking forward to it.

I'm guessing one of the reasons from one recently introduced camera, promising yet "not quite there yet".
 
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