So is it true that the Gemini produces a soft picture? Do you regret not going to 8K?

[Phil Holland]

What I would do is side by side test with that diffusion at various crops and resolutions. That depends on a lot. Optically with filters the format size is what matters as it's magnification based. However if you're intention is related to captured detail you might might find some merit between filter strength and format size as well as capture resolution.

This is one of those lots of ways to paint a picture situations.

If you're goal is to "match" however, you need to do those tests. As well as testing filter strength versus focal length.

 

[PatrickFaith]

What I would do is side by side test with that diffusion at various crops and resolutions. That depends on a lot. Optically with filters the format size is what matters as it's magnification based. However if you're intention is related to captured detail you might might find some merit between filter strength and format size as well as capture resolution.

This is one of those lots of ways to paint a picture situations.

If you're goal is to "match" however, you need to do those tests. As well as testing filter strength versus focal length.

Excellent Phil, I'll do those tests how you outlined it, much thanks !

 

[luigivaltulini]

I hear different things about the quality of the picture on the Gemini. I hear it produces a soft image even when your subject is in focus. So what's the verdict? Do you Gemini owners wish you went 8K helium instead?

My personal opinion, Gemini all the time, better if you have Monstro eheeh.
However, if you going a photographic book or 4k TV then maybe Helium has something more ... but in the end if you want a clean and organic ,less noisy, clean image then gemini is the way ...

I put some pictures, if you want to have fun, I have not used any light all taken up as a documentary, with low quality lenses.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dzmMYL3NRs9RpVuXziOQ6cyPnmK-ArTj

 

[rand thompson]

Luigi,


Here we go again!

Straight out of Redcine-X.

 

[rand thompson]

Part 2,


Out of Redcine-X

 

[Misha Engel]

Shoot a 4k chart to see how soft or sharp it is (RGB resolution).
4k from an Alexa Mini is also pleasing (and soft) etc... at Open Gate 3.4K: 3424 x 2202 bayer -> 2421x1557 pixel RGB.
Just look at Blade Runner 2049, Upscaled to IMAX 70 mm and Upscaled to 4k-DCI and it got an oscar for it.

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare_NEW.cgi?makeA=ARRI&modelA=Alexa&formatA=Open+Gate&makeB=Kodak&modelB=Film&formatB=70mm+15-Perf&focalLengths=

 

[rand thompson]

Part 3,


Redcine-X

 

[rand thompson]

Last set,

 

[adam brennan]

Personally I think the files shown are soft looking coming from an 8K camera owner. I went the Gemini route due to the type of shooting but may pick up another 8K camera.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Personally I think the files shown are soft looking coming from an 8K camera owner. I went the Gemini route due to the type of shooting but may pick up another 8K camera.

I beg to differ:

Detail is plenty in these images, but if and how you choose to sharpen, that's another thing. :smile5:

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Luigi,


Here we go again!

Straight out of Redcine-X.

Damn, those look so, so good. It's almost like I'm looking at a cross between Fujicolor 1600 and Fujichrome 100. Or something like that - you know what I mean. ;-)

I'm going to ask this again: why is any commercial DP shooting with anything else? Hello? Okay, so Monstro looks great, ALEV III looks great, fine fine fine yeah yeah yeah. RED should get some recognition for this sensor. Maybe a technical Oscar or something.

 

[Thai Christen]

From all the images I have seen so far from Gemini - non corrected noted - there is nothing that makes me jump and want to switch from Helium. Also I think skintone from Gemini (out of camera) tends towards magenta and yellow. But I could be mistaken.
If you shoot a lot highspeed above 100fps and low light with no crew and lighting, Gemini all the way.

Otherwise, I love Helium for its color and flexibility. I have come so far that I have dumped my Leica M10 and Phase One and shoot solely Helium 8K for motion and stills.
A couple of months ago I shot a web and print campaign where the client wanted BOTH stills and motion in widescreen AND vertical format for instagram TV, social media and print ads.
Weapon Helium 8K all the way!

 

[Zeb B]

Soft images is not a problem with our Gemi. OP sounds a big vague. Point to specifics for a meaningful discussion since there are many things that effect the final image other than the sensor.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Gemini is taller and same width as helium. if shooting with the same lens it's easy to take the character of the lens into the comparisonin other words you use a larger image circle and for that reason use more of the "soft corners" of the lens.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

From all the images I have seen so far from Gemini - non corrected noted - there is nothing that makes me jump and want to switch from Helium. Also I think skintone from Gemini (out of camera) tends towards magenta and yellow. But I could be mistaken.
(...)

It depends...

 

[rand thompson]

Damn, those look so, so good. It's almost like I'm looking at a cross between Fujicolor 1600 and Fujichrome 100. Or something like that - you know what I mean. ;-)

I'm going to ask this again: why is any commercial DP shooting with anything else? Hello? Okay, so Monstro looks great, ALEV III looks great, fine fine fine yeah yeah yeah. RED should get some recognition for this sensor. Maybe a technical Oscar or something.

Karim,

Thanks alot man! All were done with just straight IPP2 output transforms. I think the subject matter that Luigi captured just lend itself to those specific looks. I think I just tried to bring out what I thought Luigi must have seen .

 

[Thai Christen]

It depends...

depends what...?
If you are referring to highlight retention in the images on top, sure Gemini is maybe 1/3 of a stop better than Helium if I can judge it by naked eye. Still not enough for me to jump and pay extra 5K and losing 8K.

ADD: looking at the images at the bottom, I prefer colors from Helium. Gemini tends towards magenta -whereas Helium has a subtle green which I find more pleasing.

 

[Josiah Duncan]

From all the images I have seen so far from Gemini - non corrected noted - there is nothing that makes me jump and want to switch from Helium. Also I think skintone from Gemini (out of camera) tends towards magenta and yellow. But I could be mistaken.

I get the same feeling. Expose for the sensitivity of the Helium correctly and you don't have to choose between resolution and excellent color. Setting target temp to 43C helps a lot with the green shadow tint too, makes it a bit more subtle. In most of the stills I'm looking at I'm hard pressed to find a big difference, just a color bias towards magenta instead of green out of camera. I find that with the right temp, helium's subtle green bias is very similar to my eyes as the alexa's subtle green bias.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

depends what...?
If you are referring to highlight retention in the images on top, sure Gemini is maybe 1/3 of a stop better than Helium if I can judge it by naked eye. Still not enough for me to jump and pay extra 5K and losing 8K.

Nonono...:smile5:
Sometimes Helium's image is greener than Gemini's, sometimes it's not. And I wasn't talking about trading in Helium and adding another 5 grand ontop of that. I was, like, thinking about going from "no camera at all" to "a real cool 5K movie camera for $19,500".
That makes more sense to me. :smile5:

 

[Thai Christen]

Nonono...:smile5:
Sometimes Helium's image is greener than Gemini's, sometimes it's not. And I wasn't talking about trading in Helium and adding another 5 grand ontop of that. I was, like, thinking about going from "no camera at all" to "a real cool 5K movie camera for $19,500".
That makes more sense to me. :smile5:

Ahh ok, gotya
If you have no camera and have to decide between Gemini and Helium, it is a tougher call for sure.

Nevertheless, even if I were in that position, I would still spend the extra 5K and go Dsmc2 Helium.
If you look at those 8K stills from Helium (if shot properly) and compare it to mid tier medium format digital backs, you will understand why