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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So... how do I do it?

16 bit EXRs are certainly the best option for VFX work... just make sure you set white balance correctly and give yourself the widest range possible in the image, including exposure adjustments to bring back any errant highlights BEFORE you pull the EXR trigger. Once you have baked in missing info, you will not get it back. We see people handoff files that come back "not good"... then go back to the R3D and say, "Oh, the info really is there".

On Tattoo... the only good take of the knife hitting the table (and center of the playing card) seemed to have an issue. When the knife hit, it twisted a bit and got hit with hard light on the left side of the shiny knife. It looked like the whole side was blown out. When we opened the file, we tugged down the FLUT and it was all there, every detail. It totally surprised David Devlin (us too). From there, he could grade the proper amount of pop from the center of the knife... just where he wanted it. Had we burned a DPX or EXR prior to doing this for some VFX work... the image would never have looked the same.

Jim
 
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What would be great is a standard intermediate R3D codec that is encodable and decodable under all platforms and software. (Essentially, like DNxHD) That way, instead of rendering to DPX or EXR, one can simply render out to lossless 16-bit 2.5:1 R3Ds. Of course, this will need a lot of commitment from all major post-production software makers (though, to be fair, the decode part is handled by most software - just the encode SDK needs to be introduced), but this is something the industry can really do with. If you must render out - use the best.
 
Lorenzo Straight said:
Jim. These are all the things most photographers (who shoot raw) know. So, thank you for keeping things easy. That's what I love about Red. You guys get it!
Can't wait to get a Scarlet in my hands.

So glad you guys are posting Tattoo this week.
Click to expand...

Most people should know this but we are surprised every day how many are starting out with a film LUT and burning DPXs to work with.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
We will post the complete workflow from Tattoo including comments. It is a good case study. Give us a couple of days...

Jim
Click to expand...

Heh heh, I know you listen to me secretly sometimes. Believe me you will be surprised how many Red owners I personally know that will thank you for this. You have to remember there a also thousands and thousands of renters around the globe, who just hire owner operators and walk away with the footage. They need lots of help in the post department.
 
Jannard said:
16 bit EXRs are certainly the best option for VFX work... just make sure you set white balance correctly and give yourself the widest range possible in the image, including exposure adjustments to bring back any errant highlights BEFORE you pull the EXR trigger. Once you have baked in missing info, you will not get it back. We see people handoff files that come back "not good"... then go back to the R3D and say, "Oh, the info really is there".

On Tattoo... the only good take of the knife hitting the table (and center of the playing card) seemed to have an issue. When the knife hit, it twisted a bit and got hit with hard light on the left side of the shiny knife. It looked like the whole side was blown out. When we opened the file, we tugged down the FLUT and it was all there, every detail. It totally surprised David Devlin (us too). From there, he could grade the proper amount of pop from the center of the knife... just where he wanted it. Had we burned a DPX or EXR prior to doing this for some VFX work... the image would never have looked the same.

Jim
Click to expand...

I have used the sentence "a proper development of the RAW files is needed for good results", a couple of times, and this pretty much sums it up.

As to DR THAT can be baked into a log DPX, as to precission, a lin EXR is much better.

But you need tools that do linear well to enjoy that extra precission...

To be clear: I agree

And:
This is exactly what confuses people a bit about the RED image workflow. There is no single setting where you get a visual representation of "all" DR.

I have a general advice for batch, when people ask: Lower the ISO to 320, develop with redlogFilm and lift the bottom with a curve if you need"

It's general and intended to be so. I know Graeme does not agree with me, as the image technically doesn't clip even at 800, it just becomes a lot easier to grade.

The procedure I suggest, is exactly wht you describe.... FLUT and ISO do the same thing.

I like it though, as it works... as a general advice...

Edit:
It does make simple sense, though. If you shoot at 800, you have 1,25 stop highlightprotection, but you have no way to enjoy that if you do not reclaim those highlights in post...

Cheers

G
 
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Jannard said:
16 bit EXRs are certainly the best option for VFX work... just make sure you set white balance correctly and give yourself the widest range possible in the image, including exposure adjustments to bring back any errant highlights BEFORE you pull the EXR trigger. Once you have baked in missing info, you will not get it back. We see people handoff files that come back "not good"... then go back to the R3D and say, "Oh, the info really is there".

On Tattoo... the only good take of the knife hitting the table (and center of the playing card) seemed to have an issue. When the knife hit, it twisted a bit and got hit with hard light on the left side of the shiny knife. It looked like the whole side was blown out. When we opened the file, we tugged down the FLUT and it was all there, every detail. It totally surprised David Devlin (us too). From there, he could grade the proper amount of pop from the center of the knife... just where he wanted it. Had we burned a DPX or EXR prior to doing this for some VFX work... the image would never have looked the same.

Jim
Click to expand...

In Nuke I cant get the exported openEXR to look like in REDCINE-X I tried all the spaces
only tiff look like the REDCINE-X color grade when sRGB color space is chosen.
is there something that I'm doing wrong ?
Thank you
Omar
 
Omar Al-Masab said:
In Nuke I cant get the exported openEXR to look like in REDCINE-X I tried all the spaces
only tiff look like the REDCINE-X color grade when sRGB color space is chosen.
is there something that I'm doing wrong ?
Thank you
Omar
Click to expand...


It shouldn't...

You should export with redlogfilm and use cineon to linearize it... At least that is what we're doing and it works like a champ...
 
Also it's worth noting films like Social Network did NOT have a raw based workflow like Jim is recommending. In fact it was pretty much transcoded DPX all the way.... no doubt this was to fit with existing DPX vfx 2K pipelines.... Did the Social Network suffer as a result? I don't think so....
 
I think those may have been 16-bit Linear DPXs, though, if memory serves me right...

But a transcode doesn't have to be destructive.
It just can very often be.
 
The missing link for this recommended workflow is DRX support for Rocket!

Any news on that?

And one question of ignorance:

The delivery for DCP is linear, so if you graded primary for DCP and want to go to film do you do a lin to log after grading the DCP?

Could someone clarify the process of grading first for DCP and then adjusting for film out?
 
Nope, you need to do it in the developing.

I match it well by using the top of the individual R, G & B curves after whitebalance.

Basically just looking at the top of the histogram.

Cheers

G
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Nope, you need to do it in the developing.

I match it well by using the top of the individual R, G & B curves after whitebalance.

Basically just looking at the top of the histogram.

Cheers


G
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Thanks,

That is the solution when you develop in redcine x, but I prefer staying RAW in Scratch all the way and DRX is crucial to the materials I get. (Israeli sun!!)

It is true I can make things better manipulating the gains in the raw but it is never as good as DRX.
 
scratch has curves now, doesn't it?

in resolve, because the output of the rocket is read in float, one can do it with curves in the "primary"...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
scratch has curves now, doesn't it?

in resolve, because the output of the rocket is read in float, one can do it with curves in the "primary"...
Click to expand...

Yes, Scratch has curves.

I will give it a try with curves in primary. Anyway I miss the DRX function in the right place of the process. Jim?
 
Ido Karilla said:
Yes, Scratch has curves.

I will give it a try with curves in primary. Anyway I miss the DRX function in the right place of the process. Jim?
Click to expand...

Good...

Of course we miss it! It's the next best color-science ever!
 
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