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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So... how do I do it?

Steven Hammer said:
Not owning a RED camera (yet, hopefully), I haven't had a chance to really play with R3D's to the point of making a finished product, but, if it's not giving away any secrets, what would be the typical workflow for a novice who has a Windows 7 machine and Premier Pro CS5 on a project with no FX. I'm not looking for a course, just a quick run down. Does CS5 handle RAW? Or should I be doing everything in RED software?

Coming from a stills background, I LOVE that RED shoots in RAW, and I agree 100% that it seems crazy to get out of RAW at any time before the final export.
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Yes CS5 production premium does. And it does it exceptionally well for a no effect workflow. The soon to be released Cs5.5 will be even better I must add.
 
Tom Lowe said:
I had a lengthy talk with Adobe recently, and I said to them, "We want to keep everything RAW for as long as we can, all the way until the end. If we have to transcode anything, we have failed. We have compromised."
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Note: Haven't used Epic... :-)

I am not sure I totally agree, though I do agree that the transcode will be unneccesary, that doesn't mean that you want the signal chain "raw" - as in: "messing with metadata to get your results" all the way.
I definitely want an RGB image down the image chain for further manipulation without messsing up the RAW development - independently of that development going into 16-bit linear or 10-bit log.

What would be nice in a nodal system, would be to be able to one development just to pull a key, and then apply that mask to a "grading" development without having to import the file twice...

There are probably systemes out there doing this?
 
Thank you Jim, I feel vindicated. I was recently passed on for a project I was planning on editing using native files. They wanted to go with a more experienced editor who "knows" you have to transcode everything before you start editing....
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Note: Haven't used Epic... :-)

I am not sure I totally agree, though I do agree that the transcode will be unneccesary, that doesn't mean that you want the signal chain "raw" - as in: "messing with metadata to get your results" all the way.
I definitely want an RGB image down the image chain for further manipulation without messsing up the RAW development - independently of that development going into 16-bit linear or 10-bit log.

What would be nice in a nodal system, would be to be able to one development just to pull a key, and then apply that mask to a "grading" development without having to import the file twice...

There are probably systemes out there doing this?
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In most node systems, you can just drag a new "noodle" from the original "FileIn" node to whatever other processing nodes you need it to run through. (Can you tell I learned node based work in Shake?)
 
Jannard said:
S
If you are going to output to film, a film print LUT is the very last thing to do.
Jim
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Why would a print LUT be the last thing?

When I grade for film out I use the print LUT from the very beginning of grading as a preview LUT while working in RAW (redcolor2,redlogfilm) in Scratch.

Do you suggest an other workflow for filmout?

Thanks.
 
Ido Karilla said:
Why would a print LUT be the last thing?

When I grade for film out I use the print LUT from the very beginning of grading as a preview LUT while working in RAW (redcolor2,redlogfilm) in Scratch.

Do you suggest an other workflow for filmout?

Thanks.
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I am suggesting exactly that... grade for DCP and the last thing you do is add the LUT for the film print. The way you are doing it can be done but doesn't give you the best results in the least amount of time. What you are doing is the "old" way and I'm suggesting a better way. Constraining the image early on is not the best solution. Additionally... if you have a good LUT for the film print, your DCP and print will look the same.

Jim
 
Cam Forbes said:
I'm in the same boat with similar questions. Would be interested to hear how Scarlet will be able to produce still images likes DSLR - will we have to pull them from footage? Just confused.
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Like I said I dont care either way... but I do have about 5k work of photo lighting equipment that I would love to be able to use with my scarlet for stills through my sybersyncs... not looking to thread jack onto a new topic, just would like at least one response from anyone with some info on this...
 
its great to stay RAW for as far as you can in the process but with VFX you need to go to DPX or EXR, the important thing is to get the image balanced as best possible so when it comes time to do the grade and you're mixing RAW with vfx'ed files (DPX or EXR) then you have the best possible playing field to work from.

Maybe one day we'll be able to work in RAW all the way, composite and add vfx and save in RAW but its not the case today so you have to transcode to do vfx work.
Thank goodness we have the RAW to begin with though which a few years ago wasn't the case and you had to work with the camera matrix and lower quality HD formats.

I'm a control freak and RED allows me to get my freak on.
Thanks Jim and the team for making that happen in an affordable package.
 
Perry Wilson said:
Like I said I dont care either way... but I do have about 5k work of photo lighting equipment that I would love to be able to use with my scarlet for stills through my sybersyncs... not looking to thread jack onto a new topic, just would like at least one response from anyone with some info on this...
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I have no specific RED experience, but I think I can still answer your question. Many years ago, I was using a Canon XL1 DV camcorder to shoot both stills and video. I had the flexibility of having still and video images of essentially the same quality, which is the same situation we have here with RED. It's just that RED's quality is orders of magnitude higher :).

When I was using my XL1, I found that it was easier to get the perfect shot if I ran the camera in movie mode even when all I wanted was stills. That let me select the perfect moment from a stream of 30 moments a second. RED Epic or Scarlet can get us up to 120 of those moments, each the same quality as a DSLR picture! Being able to shoot in this way again is one of the many things that I look forward when getting a high-end Scarlet or low-end EPIC system.

Of course to take advantage of this, I need a continuous lighting system, not a flash. So I would encourage you to replace your current lighting gear.

You may also want to rework your lighting. With higher ISO equipment, you generally don't need as much lighting as you did in the days of flash. In the past, it might have been downright sadistic towards your subjects to bake them in huge numbers of 1000 watt continuous lights. Nowadays you can get away with a lot less light, and so a lot less heat and complexity.

Hope that helps.

D
 
Russell Fogle said:
JIM I'd like to seriously propose that RED Studios offers a "Masters of Lighting" course. Same thing as Reducation but a lighting only course held by some of the best in the business.
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I would love this. If it ran directly after a Reductaion week, it would be worth an international flight :)
 
+1 on master lighting course!!!
 
Jannard said:
The very LAST thing you should do for a DCP output is make DPX files.
Jim
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Very interesting statements about how post-production should evolve : shoot digital -> finish for digital (DCP) -> & then apply conversion LUT for print.

But I don't understand with what kind of file format we should do the DCP? Does any color correcting programm encode directly from RAW files to do a master DCP?

Pat
 
IN the spirit of sharing information I would add to Jim's Suggestions.

If you can work on 1-2K proxies and then at the moment of final render process everything at 4K and AFTER that downconvert to 2K/HD you will have a real clean master. Specially if you have a lot of secondaries/keys on very specific colors.
 
We will post the complete workflow from Tattoo including comments. It is a good case study. Give us a couple of days...

Jim
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Very interesting statements about how post-production should evolve : shoot digital -> finish for digital (DCP) -> & then apply conversion LUT for print.

But I don't understand with what kind of file format we should do the DCP? Does any color correcting programm encode directly from RAW files to do a master DCP?

Pat
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Probably suggesting linear for a DCP mastering process, given that you can handle the bit-depth.
RAW is the "cheapest" way to do that, as the RR can spit out Linear full bit-depth without the need for transcoded files, so you could go for linear grade without making, say: EXRs...
 
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