Smoke news

[Michael Dalton]

As a 20 year flame artist I'm pleased to see Autodesk moving into a space where the industry really lives.

+1

I must say this has got my interest peaked too. I use to be a flame artist in another life, and loved that program. The interface was super fast to use. I think a NLE that can do FX like flame and have the power of davinci included without a roundtrip is Awesome!!!!!!

Now that I'm back in Avid world, I'm happy. I thought colour was good till I tried Davinci, but have had a number of headaches with the whole round trip thing. Full support of r3d files. Hmm, I think I'll definitely try it out. Must support BMD though.

MD

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Nick.
Didn't you post this verbatim couple of days ago?
BTW, with the new verion of Smoke, getting in and out of Smoke got much easier now

Something similar, but shorter, yeah. It's a large question I've had for a year and a half now, and I've never felt I've received a thorough answer. The "What's the point in Smoke?" opinion I have is one of my many opinions that I'd love to be proved wrong about.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I'm excited about this new version. Having run Smoke quite a bit last year, I really like essentially every change they've made. I find it interesting (although not shocking) that Lustre functionality is not part of the package, but from my point of view, Smoke and Resolve make a great and powerful combination in the right hands and the right circumstances. My only issue is the requirement for different video output cards for each (Autodesk is married to AJA, and Resolve, not surprisingly, is married to Blackmagic). At this point, that probably means two separate computers, but perhaps one or the other will open up to, well, one or the other.

I can dream, can't I? :001_unsure:

My thoughts exactly. I'm running into this right now in terms of I/O compatibility. What it comes down to is optimizing each machine with the appropriate hardware needed, which in a mid to large shop is no problem. In a smaller shop with fewer machines, it becomes a bit more of a challenge. I suspect that Blackmagic will not open Resolve to 3rd party I/O to protect their interests, which I can't blame them. Also by keeping the I/O in the family, they are able to keep the troubleshooting to a minimum. But for those who have Adobe Suite, FCP Studio, FCPX, Avid, Resolve, etc. all on one system (sometimes running multiple boot disks) this becomes a bit of a dilemma and does force you to make some choices. Pulling cards out on a regular basis is not ideal. So, the simple solution is to optimize each machine to do the tasks intended which means giving up some flexibility but hard to complain too much when the cost of everything has come down so far. Even in a small shop, it's possible to run everything I mentioned earlier on 2-3 machines. That's still pretty manageable.

 

[Erich Ocean]

Sold! This is exactly where I was hoping Smoke would go –- price, features, UI, everything!

A game changer, and integrates very well with Resolve for grading, and FCP/Avid for the rough cut. Or skip both, Smoke can do it all!

I love it when high-end products and workflows become cost effective.

And I hate round tripping -- what a time waster.

 

[jake blackstone]

My thoughts exactly. I'm running into this right now in terms of I/O compatibility. What it comes down to is optimizing each machine with the appropriate hardware needed, which in a mid to large shop is no problem. In a smaller shop with fewer machines, it becomes a bit more of a challenge. I suspect that Blackmagic will not open Resolve to 3rd party I/O to protect their interests, which I can't blame them. Also by keeping the I/O in the family, they are able to keep the troubleshooting to a minimum. But for those who have Adobe Suite, FCP Studio, FCPX, Avid, Resolve, etc. all on one system (sometimes running multiple boot disks) this becomes a bit of a dilemma and does force you to make some choices. Pulling cards out on a regular basis is not ideal. So, the simple solution is to optimize each machine to do the tasks intended which means giving up some flexibility but hard to complain too much when the cost of everything has come down so far. Even in a small shop, it's possible to run everything I mentioned earlier on 2-3 machines. That's still pretty manageable.

Smoke runs quite well without an AJA card, albeit not as well. You can use the second DVI output from the video card to run the second monitor for the full screen display. That's the way I run it on my Resolve station without any issues whatsoever.

 

[jake blackstone]

Something similar, but shorter, yeah. It's a large question I've had for a year and a half now, and I've never felt I've received a thorough answer. The "What's the point in Smoke?" opinion I have is one of my many opinions that I'd love to be proved wrong about.

The short answer is, take all Creative suite apps, mix a little Nuke into it, with a dash of some other plugins, like Sapphire and Optical Flares, true film grain emulation, high quality noise reduction and you'll start getting something resembling the power of Smoke.

 

[Dermot Shane]

I was a Discreet user in the 90's, but needed to move on as they really didn't offer a toolset sutable for longform, and if i stayed with Discreet then my tools were limiting me.. after checking out Pirahana & Jaleo i went to Avid DS and have been happy with the decision overall.. every thing has it's strong & weak points

Now that DS has a color surface that works really well, i'm not seeing a reason to switch... Smoke on Mac gets "DS like" intergration of tools, but no cc for longform, and at the same time DS ups the game in that department... and has seemless intergration of compositing and color

My workflow has changed in the last few years, five years ago it was 70% VFX & 30% finishing, now it's 70% gradeing longform, 30% finishing - Smoke on Mac is not the right answer for me still, and i'm glad i moved on.

They are all getting closer tho, but Smoke on mac is not good enough to switch when the competition is getting better all the time too.

But should Quantel decide to get into the ring with Pable PA, then game set match to them if they could market their way out of a wet paper bag...



d

 

[M Most]

+1

I think a NLE that can do FX like flame and have the power of davinci included without a roundtrip is Awesome!!!!!!

It would be if that were true. But Smoke does not have "the power of DaVinci included." Flame Premium does, in the form of Lustre. But Smoke's color correction tools - basically unchanged versions of the color corrector and the color warper - are hardly the equivalent of a full grading system, and are not implemented in a way that's really conducive to long form grading. They are really designed for color correcting individual elements in a composite, much like the tools in Nuke or After Effects.

 

[Erich Ocean]

It would be if that were true. But Smoke does not have "the power of DaVinci included." Flame Premium does, in the form of Lustre. But Smoke's color correction tools - basically unchanged versions of the color corrector and the color warper - are hardly the equivalent of a full grading system, and are not implemented in a way that's really conducive to long form grading. They are really designed for color correcting individual elements in a composite, much like the tools in Nuke or After Effects.

Thankfully, Smoke plays very well with others, so it's an easy trip at the end of the project to your colorist running Resolve when that's what you need.

Also, I'd be shocked if they didn't bring Lustre into Smoke at some point soon.

 

[M Most]

I was a Discreet user in the 90's, but needed to move on as they really didn't offer a toolset sutable for longform, and if i stayed with Discreet then my tools were limiting me.. after checking out Pirahana & Jaleo i went to Avid DS and have been happy with the decision overall.. every thing has it's strong & weak points

Now that DS has a color surface that works really well, i'm not seeing a reason to switch... Smoke on Mac gets "DS like" intergration of tools, but no cc for longform, and at the same time DS ups the game in that department... and has seemless intergration of compositing and color

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I do, however, worry about Avid's long term commitment to the DS product. I don't really worry about Autodesk's commitment to Smoke. And I'm not nearly as sold on the viability of longform grading on DS as you seem to be, but that's as much about individual experience and preference as anything...

 

[M Most]

Also, I'd be shocked if they didn't bring Lustre into Smoke at some point soon.

I would probably be more shocked if they did. Not saying it's impossible. It's just unlikely. Unless, of course, they decide to do a "Smoke Premium" on a platform other than Linux. In that case..........

 

[M Most]

Smoke runs quite well without an AJA card, albeit not as well. You can use the second DVI output from the video card to run the second monitor for the full screen display. That's the way I run it on my Resolve station without any issues whatsoever.

I guess that's one option, but it does limit you from dealing with VTR's (yes, some of us still have to deal with those, certainly for mastering) and makes me a little nervous in terms of accurate monitoring due to the lack of SDI (and thus proper video signal formatting).

 

[Bing Bailey]

a price drop on scratch in the same vein would be very nice

 

[jake blackstone]

a price drop on scratch in the same vein would be very nice

Smoke is just one of many products Autodesk offers, same goes for Blackmagic. Companies like I had mentioned have a luxury of "creative" pricing without destroying their business in the process. Assimilate has no place to hide. It has just TWO products in the catalog. I'm surprised Assimilate has lasted this long as is...

 

[jake blackstone]

I guess that's one option, but it does limit you from dealing with VTR's (yes, some of us still have to deal with those, certainly for mastering) and makes me a little nervous in terms of accurate monitoring due to the lack of SDI (and thus proper video signal formatting).

I know, that I wouldn't use Smoke in it's present configuration for any type of color critical application. Using seconf DVI output will not create proper color output, but I don't use Smoke for any type of grading, so for me it's not that critical of an issue. I find the ability to use Smoke on the same platform as Resolve and FCP with BM card is more important.
And yes, vtr control and recording in Smoke is out of the question, but that what Resolve is for

 

[Erich Ocean]

Smoke is just one of many products Autodesk offers, same goes for Blackmagic. Companies like I had mentioned have a luxury of "creative" pricing without destroying their business in the process. Assimilate has no place to hide. It has just TWO products in the catalog. I'm surprised Assimilate has lasted this long as is...

That's why I think we'll see Lustre in Smoke at some point. Autodesk doesn't even sell the product anymore, and color grading software in the space Smoke is in is now basically free (thanks to Blackmagic and Adobe), so it's not like they'd be adding something they could charge for (or at least, charge much for...)

Actually, now that I think about it, if Autodesk made Lustre a $999 add on for Smoke, I'm certain many Smoke 2013 users would buy it. That's basically found money for Autodesk.

 

[Eric Santiago]

As they were putting down AE, AE does now 3d tracking. So, if you need 3d tracking in Smoke, again, another app. Don't get me wrong. I still think, that Smoke is the best in it's breed of finishing apps and a major reduction in price is great too.

Jake do you have any input on Smoke vs DS? For years we've been thinking about moving up from After Effects but never really put time into it. Your thoughts?

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake do you have any input on Smoke vs DS? For years we've been thinking about moving up from After Effects but never really put time into it. Your thoughts?

Can't say, as I have very limited knowledge on DS.
Said that, Smoke is a definite step up from AE on quite a few aspects.
Smoke is an app, that works in a true 3d space. As a result, there is no need to import EXR image, like you may be forced with AE, but you can import an FBX model from a 3D app, like 3D Max or MAya and do a true 3d compositing with re-surface, re-lighting etc. and do not forget it is a node based compositor, unlike layer based AE. With the new Batch effects in Smoke 2013 the advantage of Smoke is even more striking.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

The lack go RT-colour grading is indeed an issue. I used to be an avid SpeedGrade user and switched to Smoke in early 2012 for several reasons, being the tedious round-tripping with gamma shifts of death the main reason. in the last 2 years I dived quite deeply into Smoke and started to like CW. Occasionally I do long-form projects such as documentaries but also TVCs. Smoke gives so much power, speed, and peace of mind regarding quality that I can work with non-RT grading well. Copy grade works quick, you can set up a three-up display for reference, in short grading with CW is an option. Much better than in any other NLE anyway.

Since they took the plunge to a new customer base and seem to push Smoke a lot I can imagine that for 2014 we will see new features that pay well into the finishing-paradigm. I bet that RT-grading is high on their list.

Hans

 

[shashbugu]

Jake do you have any input on Smoke vs DS? For years we've been thinking about moving up from After Effects but never really put time into it. Your thoughts?

If you don't know the answer to your own question then stick with AE. AE is only going to get better. As much as smoke 2013 is being touted as a be all end all, its still in its current form geared at the well experienced. The application is very simple and intuitive if you have ever taken a vfx course and work in that industry. But for the desktop filmmaker there are quiet a few tricks up AE's sleeve you can explore.