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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Significant Update...

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Jason Beckwith said:
The mount whining is getting a little loud... We've all been waiting an awful long time, and if you go back to the first post in this thread and do a little math, it's pretty obvious how much we're getting at their expense. Literally. I see the "horses for courses" cliche being posted a lot, I'd like to remind you that there's another cliche that involves a "gift horse".
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I hear you on the gift horse thought... it's sad how every thread that further fleshes out these remarkable loyalty programs always descends into people calling 'more!'. I'm stage 4, and it's presently unclear when stage 4 will get a look-in and how much it will cost us for the brain and more. Since we may have been loyally and quietly funding many others' Red ownership and their livings by renting while waiting, some of it can seem rather ungrateful given the incredible offer from Red here!
 
Mitch Gross said:
You're not paying for a $2000 paperweight. You're buying a camera with an included mount and then choosing not to use it. If you bought a $20,000 car as a pile of individual parts from the manufacturer, it would proaly cost you $200,000. Maybe that will help you feel better about an unused PL mount.

Would you buy a car but tell the dealer, "I don't have any kids so I don't need the rear seats. I see you make them removeable so people can carry lots of cargo and that's what I'd like to do. I see that the catalog lists replacement seats for $1000. Can I not take the seats and you drop $1000 off the car?"

No.
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Cars indeed!

If you buy a Ford, you buy what the dealer will sell you.

If you buy a race car, they'll build it for you any way you like.

EPIC isn't a Ford and it isn't a race car; it's a Ferrari sold for the price of a Lexus.

Mike
 
Still, it would be nice to be able to order your new "car" with the lens mount of your choice. Steve Gibby's post in another thread makes this case quite persuasively. Of course, the fact that I'm just wanting the electronic Canon mount could have something to do with my opinion.

:-)

What seems very clear is that the Stage II and Stage III owners are going to very, very happy fairly soon!

Stephen
 
I think the answer to this is pretty simple:
Every rental house I spoke with embraced the idea once they understood the concept. I can just about guarantee that every Epic user will at some point use still lenses on it whether as primary setup or occasional job. Every rental house will offer it "a la carte"
This is the fundamental premise of DSMC concept. Within 2 years every Epic will need still mount adapter. Canon, Nikon or in a rental equipment case -both.
So the answer to "how many?" is simply"a lot"
 
David Battistella said:
I tried to move this lens mount discussion to another thread where Jim made a very clear reply.

Mitch Gross has nailed it (and I mentioned it in the other thread too) that the PL PLAN was in place a long time ago.

Steve made a "swap out" request and it sounded like a feasible idea.

Jim stated very clearly what it all entails.

The EPIC-X owners are getting an EPIC with a Titanium mount (a gift from RED) and RED is offering (as a service to their customers) CANON and NIKON mounts in Titanium as well.

What is the productive way forward?

Maybe we can help RED out by letting them know now (in a seperate thread) how many of these mounts they might have to manufacture. That is information they could use so that they can have an idea of the production numbers they might be facing.

Maybe that information can be gathered in one thread here:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?60977-THREE-MOUNTS-Discussion-thread&p=791017#post791017

David
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I think the Gibby request was put out there respectfully, and a number of others generally just agreed with Gibby. The discussion/debate started when a lot of people jumped in saying that was unreasonable, and even "whiny" at one point.

As for my contribution, I merely tried to point out that if RED requires every Stage 2 and Stage 3 camera to have a PL mount, there are going to be a lot of reduced price PL mounts for sale as soon as the cameras start shipping, and that could cut deeply into any PL mount sales for the Stage 4 Epics. As far as future plans on what RED needs to manufacture? If I can't get some relief on the PL mount towards what appears to be a dream Nikon mount, then you'd better just put me down for a couple of dumb mounts. I've still got to figure out how to raise money for the SSDs and Redvolts.
 
Thanks Jarred for the clarification. Does Red still plan on developing some short of follow focus device for the Canon mount? I haven't heard anything since you guys announced the REdmotePro such a long time ago. Right now we have a pretty decent focus system for our Red-canon system. I will get my Epic no matter what, (actually I can't wait!) but it would be very helpfull to know if we'll be able to get some short of focus device for our canon lenses since the current system will become an instant paperweight as soon as we switch to Epic.

And of course I have to ask, even though you probably won;t be able to answer, but any time frame in case there is a develpment proccess for the redmotePro?

Thanks,


Jarred Land said:
Canon Mounts no problem.. we will ship them with just iris support if needed after all parts come in. Characterizing lenses takes a very long time, we won't wait on that to be complete before we ship.
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Johnny Friday said:
sell your body on the late night streets to find extra $$ Elsie.....not your camera body...but YOUR body....put it out there and they will come...then the $$ will come.
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Hah! RED would be in their 4th or 5th generation cameras by the time MY body attracted enough $$ to meet my needs for the current generation of camera.

Besides, if a pretty girl came along I think I would be a buyer, not a seller.:w00t:
 
My posts are always put up respectfully. You'll notice in my posts on this thread I clearly thanked Red for their generosity, and expressed my understanding for the need of the price increases itemized by Jim in his thread-opening post.

Please also note that in my post about the possibility of substituting mounts that I mentioned that if the Canon mounts cost more to make, or there were other factors determining Red's needs to charge a premium for a changeout, that was understandable too. My post was designed to brainstorm a win/win scenario on this mount question - and that's the way I've always done business.

Everybody here wants Red to succeed. They have a business to run - but so do each of us on a smaller scale. Its a symbiotic relationship - us customers rely on Red succeeding in business, but Red also relies on their customers succeeding in business so we have capital to buy Red's offerings. Again, its a circular symbiosis.

As a small business owner working in certain sub-industries within the stills and motion media industry, I have to naturally watch and justify all acquisitions and expenditures, and make sure they make sense for my business plan - the same thing Red has to do, but obviously on a much larger scale.

I'm assertive, not aggressive in what I propose to people. Real friends and solid associates will always tell you what you need to hear - not necessarily always what you want to hear. I've always done that with my friends and associates - including Red - and I've done just that on this thread. My posts were searching for a way for Red to make their expected revenue on these camera packages - while simultaneously seeking a way for those of us in the stills, hybrid, and EFP industries who can't use a PL mount to get the mount we really need by paying an extra premium for it as necessary - and that would be a win/win situation for everyone concerned.

Jim has been a friend for about 27 years now. I have a deep history of supporting Jim, Red, and Red Team dating clear back to the Spring of 2005 when Jim first told me about his plans for a company to be named Red. I've never wavered in my support for Red - and I haven't with my posts on this thread. Jim and all the members of Red Team are very close friends of mine, and that won't be changing. Friends disagree at times and/or have misunderstandings - but they also know that a true friend speaks his mind clearly and seeks a win/win for both sides of an issue. As always, I've done that on this thread...
 
Hey guys.. we love you. we really do. But the bitching over the requests for us to take a hit once again and give you free mounts is starting to get really old really quick.

Take a break on this one.
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey guys.. we love you. we really do. But the bitching over the requests for us to take a hit once again and give you free mounts is starting to get really old really quick.

Take a break on this one.
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Jarred, Luv you back. Speaking personally, I don't want a free mount. And I wasn't aware the swap out was asking RED to take a hit. I am sorry, although I'm not sure for what. But nevertheless, I do apoligize.
 
As I see it, an issue was raised, and Red (unlike any other company that I can think of) responded to it honestly. They provided a reason for their position and stated the best that they'd be able to do, including possibly making an entirely new product; the nikon dumb mount. Then it got a little out of control and 'whiney'.

As I see it, it's a done issue. Red will release the canon mount with iris control, as soon as they are able and take a serious look into putting out a dumb nikon mount. They have stated that it's not cost effective to allow a mount trade out with the Epic-X package price. To me, they have listened and responded to everyone as best they could.

[Edit: Sorry Jarred, didn't see your post when I wrote this. I'm not trying to keep an argument going, in fact, I'm trying to do the opposite.]
 
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Jarred Land said:
Hey guys.. we love you. we really do. But the bitching over the requests for us to take a hit once again and give you free mounts is starting to get really old really quick.

Take a break on this one.
Click to expand...

Nobody on this thread, including me, asked Red to take a hit by giving us a free mount...on the contrary, most people on this thread interested in a Canon mount expressed a desire to pay Red whatever additional premium Red deems necessary to replace the PL mount with a Canon mount when they buy their Epic. That's not asking Red to take a hit of any kind, and its also not asking Red for a free mount.

Its all good Jarred...
 
Jarred Land said:
the bitching over the requests for us to take a hit once again and give you free mounts is starting to get really old really quick.
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Mr. Land, with all due respect, I don't think anyone has been asking for a free mount. In my case quite the opposite: I'm willing to pay for a mount you won't have to deliver.
 
In Red's favor, the cost issue, I think, isn't the relative cost of the mounts... the expensive issue is the added logistics... Epic X shipping in quantity with PL mounts is relatively simple. Epic X shipping in quantity with either PL or Canon or Nikon or ??? suddenly makes the logistics that much more complicated... from inventory to ordering to fulfillment. If Red were then to add BTO (Build to Order), then that gets even more messy. Options = expense.

No more comments from me on this issue.
 
I think it won't be a problem to sell the titanium PL-mount, if one does not want to keep it as paper weigth.

It seems that not much attention has yet been paid to the fact that the Canon mount will be made of titanium. This is a pretty important thing and a very good move from Red.
 
Jarred,

I called you guys a couple of days ago with the intention of putting my name on the list for a Stage 4 Epic X brain at 2011 pricing, spoke to a very cool dude. He told me Stage 4 was Epic S, and mentioned a time frame somewhat far in the future. If I have read Jim's original post correctly, this is perhaps not the case, or maybe I misunderstood him. Can you clarify?

To make it official, here I am, checkbook open, pen hovering, holding my breath, one (1) Epic X brain please. Can I place my order?

Tom
 
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