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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shotgun Mics

Ty Ford said:
They give me confidence that I can record at higher levels without going into the red. Higher average levels means the audio is further above the noise floor.
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Whats your opinion on using the Sound Devices recorder without a mixer. Would the limiters and the preamplification be of less quality? Would you be able to increase average levels without raising the noise floor using the 7 series?

How much of the noise floor in general comes from the self noise of the mic (lets say a mk41)? I mean how much does it help to raise the levels on a Sound Devices mixer?
 
Jack Wester said:
Whats your opinion on using the Sound Devices recorder without a mixer. Would the limiters and the preamplification be of less quality? Would you be able to increase average levels without raising the noise floor using the 7 series?
Click to expand...

Sorry for any :gun: hijacking.
 
Ty Ford is the expert on this thread but I can say that I've used the 7 series recorder for ages and I think it's great. It is a recorder and a mixer; although you only get two mic level inputs. Sound Devices say they use the same preamps on the 7 series as they do on their 442 mixer.
I actually wrote to them to ask that they put two more mic level inputs in there and put the price up; of course they replied saying they'd think about it but no luck yet..
RED really is a revolutionary company.., setting up this forum so we can all give our suggestions and then actively listening and responding :weight_lift:
 
fergus said:
I actually wrote to them to ask that they put two more mic level inputs in there and put the price up; of course they replied saying they'd think about it but no luck yet..
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So their recorder has amplifiers as good as those in their mixers. You'd be paying a lot of money for easier to access physical level controls if you buy the mixer. Sticking to a standalone 702T (or maybe a 744) and no mixer would be good for most Indie RedOne users, right?

From reading other forums, it's clear that Ty knows what he's talking about. What is your thought on this?
 
Jack Wester said:
Whats your opinion on using the Sound Devices recorder without a mixer. Would the limiters and the preamplification be of less quality? Would you be able to increase average levels without raising the noise floor using the 7 series?

How much of the noise floor in general comes from the self noise of the mic (lets say a mk41)? I mean how much does it help to raise the levels on a Sound Devices mixer?
Click to expand...

Well the recorder has good input limiters, but since it doesn't "output" before the recording process, I guess it doesn't reallyrequire them. I'd reach out to Sound Devices tech support and ask that question. They're very helpful.

The MK41 is well above the sound floor.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
Ty, I'm budgeting to get a Schoeps mk41 sometime in the next 6 months. I've heard that it's also helpful to have an mkh40 for the broader carioid pattern. What are your thoughts on this? Or does purchasing a mk41 put an mkh40 out of commission?

Right now I use a CK93 and mkh60 for my various needs.
 
hi shawn

I've had a 41 and an 8 in an M/S config for a couple of years and it is a beautiful mic combo; I think it sounds like I've stretched my neck right out and put my head in the rycote basket. I use the 41 for interior sound when it's quiet and I can get the thing reasonably close, it has better reach than the 4 obviously so it was a compromise choice, (the 4&8 combo is the ideal stereo setup), but I record live classical music with the 41/8 all the time and it sounds great; so my point is that I haven't "heard" the 41's supercardoid pattern , even recording music. Because it is a great microphone it hears everything though, and I've had difficulties when I've asked the doco director to hold the boom, because of the handling noise etc. I'm saving up for the Schoeps Shotgun to compliment the 41.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Ty, I'm budgeting to get a Schoeps mk41 sometime in the next 6 months. I've heard that it's also helpful to have an mkh40 for the broader carioid pattern. What are your thoughts on this? Or does purchasing a mk41 put an mkh40 out of commission?

Right now I use a CK93 and mkh60 for my various needs.
Click to expand...

Hello Shawn,

I'm not a big fan of wider patterns, but if you're headed for a cmc641, consider that you might get the mk4 capsule later if you need it. You can screw that onto the same Schoeps body and maintaint the Schoeps sound.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
Do any of you have opinions/experience with either of the Audio-Technica mics that go by the designations AT4071a, AT815ST? What's the audio quality from these? How well do they handle environmental extremes?

The AT815ST is a stereo shotgun... how is that possible if the microphone only has a single xlr output? Or does it have two xlr males or something weird like that? Is the stereo function really noticeable or is it more worthwhile to purchase a mono mic?
 
"Thought I saw that the RED has only mini-xlr jacks. Have never used these. Any idea why they used that size? Does it impact audio quality? "

i remember reading that this was purely because of size considerations on the camera body--they're trying to keep the camera as compact/light as possible.

p
 
Lowkus said:
Do any of you have opinions/experience with either of the Audio-Technica mics that go by the designations AT4071a, AT815ST? What's the audio quality from these? How well do they handle environmental extremes?

The AT815ST is a stereo shotgun... how is that possible if the microphone only has a single xlr output? Or does it have two xlr males or something weird like that? Is the stereo function really noticeable or is it more worthwhile to purchase a mono mic?
Click to expand...

Mono is 3 pin xlr, stereo is five pin. Stereo is great. You want to use M/S. Stereo picks everything up in the room, so if you are recording all that sound then great, but if you want to focus in on what someone is saying then not so great..
 
Do stereo shotguns have a switch to capture mono sound? Is that the m/s setting?

For mono shotguns, do any of you have opinions on the akg ck69?
 
I currently own a Sennheiser 416 that I plan on mounting on top of my Red. I'm looking for something shorter, but similar. I don't want to get too detailed in the specifics of the subtle differences in sound quality, I just want to get something a bit shorter than the Sennheiser 416 that will kick some serious ass and work great on a feature film like I know my 416 does.

Trying to slim down my Red in every possible area.

Any suggestions?
 
zak forrest said:
I currently own a Sennheiser 416 that I plan on mounting on top of my Red. I'm looking for something shorter, but similar. I don't want to get too detailed in the specifics of the subtle differences in sound quality, I just want to get something a bit shorter than the Sennheiser 416 that will kick some serious ass and work great on a feature film like I know my 416 does.

Trying to slim down my Red in every possible area.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Well for feature film work the only purpose of a camera-mounted mic would be either ambient sound (such as scenic vista pans) or purely as a scratch track to later sync with the real audio tracks. You won't really get good dialogue from any on-cam mic.

For simple ambient sounds, I'd get something like the mkh40/50 or the AKG se300b/CK93, maybe even just stick with your 416, though that it very directional.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Well for feature film work the only purpose of a camera-mounted mic would be either ambient sound (such as scenic vista pans) or purely as a scratch track to later sync with the real audio tracks. You won't really get good dialogue from any on-cam mic.

For simple ambient sounds, I'd get something like the mkh40/50 or the AKG se300b/CK93, maybe even just stick with your 416, though that it very directional.
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hey shawn thanks for your response.

did you recommend the mkh40/mkh50 because they are a couple inches shorter than the 416? or because of their pickup pattern characteristics?

for the film im making im using both wireless lavs and the 416. its semi-documentary and i'm happy with the results so far (when only using the 416 in certain situations..)
 
zak forrest said:
hey shawn thanks for your response.

did you recommend the mkh40/mkh50 because they are a couple inches shorter than the 416? or because of their pickup pattern characteristics?

for the film im making im using both wireless lavs and the 416. its semi-documentary and i'm happy with the results so far (when only using the 416 in certain situations..)
Click to expand...

Both. I own the mkh50 and the mkh60 and the 50 is very short, it's about the size of a big cigar and has a nice ambient pickup. It doesn't reach far (like a shotgun) but I'd probably use it on my Red for nature shots and what not. Although, if you are shooting something like the beach or a waterfall or something, a shotgun would make more sense.
 
stereo mic for ambient sound

stereo mic for ambient sound

Shawn Nelson said:
Well for feature film work the only purpose of a camera-mounted mic would be either ambient sound (such as scenic vista pans) or purely as a scratch track to later sync with the real audio tracks. You won't really get good dialogue from any on-cam mic.

For simple ambient sounds, I'd get something like the mkh40/50 or the AKG se300b/CK93, maybe even just stick with your 416, though that it very directional.
Click to expand...

I've been looking into what mic(s) to use on my Red. Since we have four channels, I'm thinking about getting two mics, or a stereo mic, for ambient sound. There are a lot of options out there.

In the middle range, around $400-$500 you have the Rode NT4 and NT5. The NT4 is sweet it is a two mic in one deal. Easy to attach and handle, but fixed angle of recording (not very good if you subject(s) are very close to the camera. The NT5 is a more classic stereo recording approach with two identical mics and system to attach them, you can then adjust the angle of each one. In this category there are many other options, such as the Fostex MC-10 ST Stereo Mic Set, quite cheap >$200 for two mics (black and red) with a small dampening attachment system, or what is considered the best stuff out there, Neumann KM184, around $2000 a pair.

I haven't made my mind up yet, but I can't afford the Neumannn right now. The Fostex looks (sounds) pretty good, but I'm still looking up on them.

I'm also waiting to hear a little more about the recording specs of the Red one.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Sanken make a nice little on-camera stereo mic: light, simple, strong and with a good reach in the centre

For music you want Schoeps. M/S: a 4 and an 8 or a 41 and an 8. The 41/8 combo is good because the 41 is also a fantastic dialogue mic for indoor work, but the 4 is slightly better acoustically.

The problem with feeding the mics directly to RED is that you don't have decent control of the levels on camera; not an issue for some..:innocent: :biggrin:
 
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